Expert: Elder Greg Madden - 5/9/2008

Question
QUESTION: hello sir, i had recently read one of your message to a girl lisa  talking to her about baptism. i recall you telling her baptism doesn't save you?

i am just somebody looking to find out the truth. I recently looked at 1 peter4:21  clearly stating that " and the water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also"

do you have any comments on that scripture that can back it up?

i hope this doesn't sound rude at all..
i just really want to know the truth  THANKS

ANSWER: Darryl,

Thank you for your question. Though I am sure you meant 1 Peter 3:21, not 1 Peter "4":21. I kept trying to find that verse with my program, and it would not put it up. LOL! Lets take a look at this verse...

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:  

First, it is important to understand the context in which the Lord (through Peter) makes this statement. That it was by the ark of Noah that saved him and his family. It was not the water that saved them. That was a form of God's judgement being executed. The ark was a type of Christ, and salvation is by him.

Second, notice that Lord tells us that water baptism does not cleance us from sin...

"...not the putting away of the filth of the flesh..."

Third, this veres clarifies why a Believer is to be baptized. Not to cleance from sin, but in obedience to Christ's commands to follow Him in baptism...

"...but the answer of a good conscience toward God..."

So you see Darryl, water baptism is an act of obedience that follows conversion to portray symbolically the washing away of our sins. The baptism itself does not bring salvation; salvation inspires the water baptism. It should be the first thing we do after we are "born again." Those who have received Jesus in their hearts should desire to follow Him in this ordinance.

Hope this helps.

Elder Greg Madden



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: wow that seems very interesting.
well this other passage i looked up   ACTS 2:13  where it says to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins.

doesnt that mean after baptism you are forgiven?
now sin is alaways going to be in the world, but nowsince we have been baptized we are able to be forgivin right?

Answer
Darryl,

I am sorry but the Scripture you quoted does not say anything about baptism.

Acts 2:13
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.  

Perhaps you were thinking of Acts 2:38. I will answer with this assumption, and if I am wrong you can send me a follow up question.

The Bible is clear that believing faith comes before water baptism. Here is an example of someone asking the very same question you have asked.

Acts 16:29-34
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?  

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.  

And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.  

In this Scriptures we read that the answer was to believe, or if you will, pray the sinners prayer, and you will be saved. Noticed that baptism did follow quickly, but Paul did not give it as requirement for salvation.

Darryl, the Bible teaches us that for someone to be saved, or born-again, they must first repent.

Acts 2:37,38
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?  
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.  

Notice in these Scriptures that the crowd did not ask Peter "What shall we do to be saved?" They were convicted in their hearts and asked Peter "What shall we do?" Notice his answer.

First he said to repent. What does it mean to repent? Repentance is defined as..."to change one's mind, i.e. to repent, to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins, to ask forgiveness, turn from sin to Christ through faith" You see Lisa, if a person does not repent, then baptism does nothing for them but get them wet!  

Second he said to be baptized. This was not a suggestion, but a command of the Lord Jesus for all who would follow Him (Matt. 28:19).
Thirdly he said that they need to be filled with the Holy Ghost. Jesus also commanded His disciples to “..tarry until ye be endued with power..” (Luke 24:49). Those who have repented from their sins are acceptable candidates for the Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Some have taught that there is a three step process to salvation.
1. Repent
2. Baptism
3. Receive the Holy Ghost
Notice that the very Scripture that those people use (Acts 2:38) does not teach this formula. The Bible does command us to do these things (to repent from our sins, to be baptized in water, and to be filled with the Holy Ghost). But Scripture teach us that salvation is by faith through grace.

Ephesians 2:8,9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  

Not of works, lest any man should boast.  

Notice that Act 2:38 says "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ 'for' the remission of sins..." Remission is defined as "release from bondage or imprisonment forgiveness or pardon, of sins (letting them go as if they had never been committed), remission of the penalty ".

But notice the word "for" comes before the word "remission" The word "for" in this Scripture is defined as "because of". For example, "For" could have two meanings. If you saw a poster saying "Jesse James wanted for robbery", "for" could mean Jesse is wanted so he can commit a robbery, or is wanted because he has committed a robbery. The later sense is the correct one. So too in this passage, the word "for" signifies an action in the past. Otherwise, it would violate the entire tenor of the NT teaching on salvation by grace and not by works.

Darryl, I am not saying that baptism is not a command of our Lord to be followed. It most certainly is! Too many have deemphasized it importance. Christ commands, not suggests, that we follow Him in water baptism. It is a vital part of our walk of faith.

Col. 2:12
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Here is a clear Scripture denoting the means of receiving salvatioin.

Romans 10:9,10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.  

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

But if he means simply saying a few words, and not changing your life style. Then he is wrong.

Let me know if this helps, or if you have any further questions.

Elder Greg Madden