Expert: Pastor Don Carpenter - 4/17/2008

Question
Hello Rev. Don,

Sorry if I am being a pest.  I don't mean to be.  I don't mean to argue, but these are questions which are on my mind and I think about them. I even have sometimes had doubts about my faith over this one issue...because it appears like you have to literally pay for God's favor...yet I thought salvation was free. This issue makes me doubt when family and friends of mine say that religion is only a business where the ministers and priests make money and that's all. I don't know how to feel or what to say when I hear this and it's because of the whole tithing thing. And often I end up agreeing with the scoffers over this one issue.  It's the only issue in my faith that is a thorn in my side and makes me angry and makes me doubt.

I will try to make this email as short as I can.  I know you are very busy and you are under no obligation to answer my questions.  

I'm kind of surprised that you actually took the time to answer my questions like that.  You said some stuff about my cable and internet.  I don't have cable, I can't afford it.  I don't have the internet.  I use one that is offered at a library near to where I work.  I declared bankruptcy 2 years ago.  If I couldn't make it then, how am I supposed to make it now?  

You didn't answer just a few of things which I thought were pertinent.  It is this from the email,

The money I give to the Church goes to pay the Church staff, not God.  Are migrant workers who earn 3 or 4 dollars per hour suppose to tithe to support a man who makes $80,000 per year, while their own children starve, never go to college, and they slave away at hard physical labor, with no health insurance, for 60 hours per week?  

Okay let's forget about just working for minimum wage. How about migrant workers?  How about rich pastors who are getting richer off the tithes of these people who are the poorest of the poor.  The wealthy pastor might tithe, but to tell you the truth I think it's disgraceful for a man to get rich off the offerings of the poorest of the poor.  And this money doesn't go to God, it goes to pay the Church staff, how about that?  And pastors are not Levites, they get to inherit land, but the Levites got the tithe in exchange for having no inheritence in the land. How about that?

And finally, my pastor makes 80,000 per year.  I have no idea how much his wife makes. His salary alone is about 3 times what I make, let alone what people who work for minimum wage make, and what migrant workers make.

You mentioned this part of my email, but you didn't answer it.  I don't see why the poor should be living like animals to make other men rich.  

You also didn't say anything about Jesus' words, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light", or the fact that Jesus said that God's blessing rain on both the good and the evil. Or about Paul's statement that a man should give as he has purposed in his heart, but nothing about tithing.  Or that Paul also said that the Lord loves a cheerful giver.  How about those things?    If you are giving till it hurts and you can't afford to live, then Jesus burden is heavy and so is his yoke.  Scripture cannot contradict itself.  If I have to tithe, then why did Paul say to give as you have purposed in your heart.  He doesn't mention tithing...again, an apparent contradiction.  

You said that giving once every 3rd year was nailed to the cross.  How can you pick and chose what was nailed to the cross and what wasn't.  Abraham tithed before the law, but it was voluntary and it's recorded that he only did it once.  Jacob tithed before the law, but again it was voluntary.  Isaac is not recorded as tithing. So if it was voluntary before the law why is it mandatory after the law?  How about that?  Tithing was only mandatory in the law, and voluntary outside the law.  Also there is no curse on God's people since the New Testament.  Yet according to you this is the only curse which exists on a Christian if he doesn't follow it.   This makes no sense.  

You say that the Church is now God's house, so we should tithe to it.  But the Levites got the tithe in exchange for not having any inheritence in the land.  Yet modern day ministers are allowed to inherit land.  How about that?  God's salvation is free, so why do we have to pay a rich pastor money to get a blessing from God, and keep us away from a curse?  I thought we were under grace.  The only reason there was a curse for not tithing in the Old Testament is because by not tithing they were neglecting the poor and God's established theocracy, but we no longer live in a theocracy and we pay taxes to support the poor.  So why are we cursed if we don't do it?  How about that?  

The law is retold in Deuteronomy.  Deuteronomy is not a secondary law with a second tithe being mentioned.  It's the same tithe.  And the Israelites only tithed once every 3 years, not every year, according to Deuteronomy.  And the seventh and Jubilee years were exempt.  Why doesn't tithing in the New Covenant exempt the 7th year and the jubilee year?  That makes no sense.  Why do we have a bigger burden under grace than under the law?  



Jesus said that God’s blessings rain on both the good and the evil.  If we use scripture to interpret scripture, you can say that it means that the blessings for tithing in Malachi are for the whole nation of Israel, both for the good people and the bad. The blessing is for the whole nation if it returns to tithing predominantly, even if it's not every single person, because God will rain his blessings on the farms of both the good and the bad.  He will not let rain fall on one farm, and then not on the farm of the neighbor because the neighbor is evil.  Have you ever seen rain falling only on the farms of good people, while the bad people get no rain?  So Malachi is really talking to the nation of Israel as a whole, and not to individuals.  If you look at Malachi 3 it's clearly talking to the whole nation, and not individuals.  I believe someone else pointed this out on All Experts.  I know I saw it somewhere and I agree with it.  I've done a lot of research into this and I know what I'm talking about. So can you explain this or give me your take on it?  

Please be so kind as to answer these last few questions.  You don't have to take time out of your schedule, just do it when you can.  I would appreciate it.  I personally don't like my pastor.  I think he is an arrogant man who makes too much money for what he does, while at the same time not caring about the poor people in his flock.  He always seems to ignore me and not take me seriously.  He appears to care more for the professionals in the Church who are his buddies.  The church is a rich church, with many rich people and I can't see how poor people giving to make a rich man richer is right.  Again, God is not getting the money, the pastor is.  

Mary A.  

Answer
Hi Mary,

You are very persistant.  I still have your e-mail.... but I am buried, and therefore I could not get to it.  I am buried with allexperts, that is why this response is so late.  I am sorry.  I will TRY one more time to answer this.  I will try to respond in detail, but I cannot answer the same questions in the future.  Before I go into the meat of my response, let me challenge you to ask yourself if this is about knowledge or willingness to obey.  We can always try to reason our way out of God's will... this is what our flesh does... that is why we have a fight between the spirit and the flesh.

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Your questions are about what others are doing, not about whether or not God said to tithe.... if it is indeed a command, and the plain truth sure seems to point in that direction, then all other objections and questions are irrelevant... God said it... that settles it, either choose to submit or choose to rebel it is that simple.

Malachi 3:8-10
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Now let me try to wade through your post:

The money I give to the Church goes to pay the Church staff, not God.  Are migrant workers who earn 3 or 4 dollars per hour suppose to tithe to support a man who makes $80,000 per year, while their own children starve, never go to college, and they slave away at hard physical labor, with no health insurance, for 60 hours per week?  

God's word commands that we should render to pastors who preach and teach, DOUBLE houor, this is speaking about money!  God said that!  Jesus started the church.... if your money goes to the church, then you are paying GOd.

1 Timothy 5:17-18
17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. 18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Matthew 16:18
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Jesus started the church.
THe Church is God's house.
If you tithe to the church, you tithe to God's house.

1 Timothy 3:15
15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Your tithe DOES NOT GO DIRECTLY TO THE PASTOR>>>>>>>> it goes to the church.  If you are a memeber of that church, then you have the oportunity to vote in business meetings and help determine the budget of the church.... if you are concerned about how the church spends money.... get involved in the meetings.  

getting richer off the tithes of these people who are the poorest of the poor.  The wealthy pastor might tithe, but to tell you the truth I think it's disgraceful for a man to get rich off the offerings of the poorest of the poor.  And this money doesn't go to God, it goes to pay the Church staff, how about that?  And pastors are not Levites, they get to inherit land, but the Levites got the tithe in exchange for having no inheritence in the land. How about that?

And finally, my pastor makes 80,000 per year.  I have no idea how much his wife makes. His salary alone is about 3 times what I make, let alone what people who work for minimum wage make, and what migrant workers make.


You are getting involved in comparing out of what seems to be jealousy and envy.  Let me quote Jesus when Peter started to do the same thing:

John 21:22
... what is that to thee? follow thou me.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Once again you confuse something that is only within the law a tithe that transcends the law.  Malchizadek was not a Levite, and yet he received a tithe.

You mentioned this part of my email, but you didn't answer it.  I don't see why the poor should be living like animals to make other men rich

Again you do not understand the purpose of the tithe,.... it does not go to an individual... it goes to the church.  We have a very small church.  Less than 1/3 of our annual budget goes to the Pastor's salary....  we have oil, maintainence, and out reach expences.  We support missionaries.  You seem to be stuck that money goes to a man.  It seems ( and I have no way of knowing, this is between you and God) that you are full of envy.  You need to be careful envy is very dangerous and it can poison your wisdom.

James 3:13-17
13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom. 14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.  16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.  17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

You also didn't say anything about Jesus' words, "My yoke is easy and my burden is light", or the fact that Jesus said that God's blessing rain on both the good and the evil. Or about Paul's statement that a man should give as he has purposed in his heart, but nothing about tithing.  Or that Paul also said that the Lord loves a cheerful giver.  How about those things?    If you are giving till it hurts and you can't afford to live, then Jesus burden is heavy and so is his yoke.  Scripture cannot contradict itself.  If I have to tithe, then why did Paul say to give as you have purposed in your heart.  He doesn't mention tithing...again, an apparent contradiction.  

If you are giving till it hurts, then you are not giving in faith.

2 Corinthians 9:7
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

This verse is about your attitude, it is not a contradiction of God's perfect word!  Notice the word HEART!  THat has to do with your attitude.

Jesus burden is light WHEN YOU TAKE UP HIS YOKE!!!!!!  Part of that is obeying HIM!  He is God, and He said to tithe....  Jesus even commanded the Pharisees to tithe!

Matthew 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and NOT TO LEAVE THE OTHER UNDONE.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.


The only reason there was a curse for not tithing in the Old Testament is because by not tithing they were neglecting the poor and God's established theocracy, but we no longer live in a theocracy and we pay taxes to support the poor.  So why are we cursed if we don't do it?  How about that?

Try again.... the reason they were under a curse is because there was not meat in GOD"S HOUSE!

Malachi 3:10
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in MINE HOUSE, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Why do we have a bigger burden under grace than under the law?

You still do not get it!  Look at the above verse.  God said Prove me.... that means test Him and see if He will do what He said.  If that verse is true ( and it is because it is in the Bible) then there is no burden with tithing, there is blessing!

Jesus said that God’s blessings rain on both the good and the evil.  If we use scripture to interpret scripture, you can say that it means that the blessings for tithing in Malachi are for the whole nation of Israel, both for the good people and the bad. The blessing is for the whole nation if it returns to tithing predominantly, even if it's not every single person, because God will rain his blessings on the farms of both the good and the bad.  He will not let rain fall on one farm, and then not on the farm of the neighbor because the neighbor is evil.  Have you ever seen rain falling only on the farms of good people, while the bad people get no rain?  So Malachi is really talking to the nation of Israel as a whole, and not to individuals.  If you look at Malachi 3 it's clearly talking to the whole nation, and not individuals.  I believe someone else pointed this out on All Experts.  I know I saw it somewhere and I agree with it.  I've done a lot of research into this and I know what I'm talking about. So can you explain this or give me your take on it?  

Yes in the Old TestamentGod dealt with Isreal as a nation, now He deals with churches.  I have seen entire churches hindered from doing great things because God cannot bless them as a body because they have members who are rebelling against scripture and robbing God.

I have done the best I can to answer these.  If you still have questions and problems with this, I cannot help you.  THis is a simple issue.  THere are only three things you need to determine.

1.  Did God commmand command to tithe?  YES

Malachi 3:8-9
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

2.  Did He promise to bless you if you do tithe? YES

Malachi 3:10
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

3.  Now will you obey or rebel in this issue?

1 Samuel 15:23
23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry....
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

I hope that this helps you.

In Christ
PAstor Don