Expert: Dr. Ronald E. Shultz - 6/18/2008

Question
Hello Dr Shultz,

My name is John, I count myself Christian—although not a very accomplished one. Every day I find myself crying to the Lord to forgive a seemingly never ending list of sins—praying that he’ll deliver me from its power.

My experience of God began many years ago when, not to put too fine a point on it, I found myself doing all the wrong things: I used to do drugs; I used to drink alcohol, and I had a sexual relationship with a girlfriend, before we eventually were married. One night—when I had had my fill of drink and drugs, I lay beside my girlfriend—completely stoned. At the time I was living in fear for my life: people were looking for me in order to kill me. It is at this point that the Lord revealed Himself to me: I found myself standing in a field; in front of me stood one of my enemies with a machete in his hand. All of a sudden I heard a voice behind me saying “trust me;” I knew it was Jesus. Without even thinking I got on my knees and started to pray. The man swung the machete, but the moment it hit my neck he disappeared, and I was left there praising and worshipping God.

I can’t say enough how this changed my life: where I had grown used to walking down the centre of the street in order to give myself a chance to run should my enemies attack. Now I walked down the street knowing that there was a God and that He could be trusted with my life.

Later I joined a church, one that preached that a man could loose his salvation. Ten or twelve years later I moved to a different area and joined another church; this church had no particular doctrine, and seemed to allow conflicting teachings to be preached every alternate Sunday: They seemed to preach “Once saved always saved” while the next Sunday they would preach you could loose your salvation. I soon became disillusioned with this.

So at this point I began looking into church history, to see if I could find out for myself what the doctrine preached by the apostles was. I read about John Wesley and his debates with George Whitefield, I read Calvin and his treaties, I read Gill’s exposition of the bible, and finally I settled with Charles Spurgeon. I became convinced that the doctrines that Spurgeon referred to as the High Doctrines of Grace were true.

So, my question is, yes I finally got around to it, what do you believe about these doctrines? Do Baptist’s still believe in these doctrines? Oh, and what’s the difference between a Baptist and a Presbyterian?

Thank you very much for taking the time to read my question. I apologise for its length.

With love in Christ

John


Answer
John,

       I rejoice in your salvation.   I also am glad to see that you are studying.  Actually, neither Wesley’s nor Calvin’s theology are completely correct.   I suspect you would have to call yourself CALAMIN.  Better to just look at Scripture and let dead men lie peaceably and be careful of their disciples.  Neither man may recognize his theory if he were here to read what his followers have come up with.

  There are strong TULIP Baptists and there are Free-Will ones and then those of us who want to be biblical.  ;-)  Oddly, both the TULIP folks and the free-will ones claim Spurgeon.  I am not sure if he would claim either group if he were here to defend his position.  Presbyterians tend to be TULIP but also have carried over some aspects from their Catholic beginnings like infant baptism and have trouble separating the Church from Israel using covenant theology.  However, there are divisions in the ranks of both Baptists and Presbyterians so you would have to ask each pastor of a church where he stands on any given issue.

  And that tends to be the problem with salvation, prophecy and other issues.   If you don’t keep the two separated you will have problems.  Paul clearly teaches that once you are saved, you are always saved and he was chosen to write most of the NT.  Peter even had a hard time understanding some of the things that Paul taught but he acknowledged that Paul was giving inspired doctrine.  

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

  Note the process, foreknow then predestinate.  God lives in the eternal now.  If we forget that we get into all sorts of trouble.  Godhead can multitask and at some point, the Godhead did in something less than a nanosecond conceived man, saw, the fall, planned salvation, scanned the 7000 years of time to where Christ would be in the end and saw all who would believe and would be in Him and said those are the saved and they are know predestined to be like Christ and receive salvation.  As time for us rolls on those who He foreknew answer the call of the Gospel as He knew they would and when they call upon Him they are saved, justified and glorified to the point where it is as if we are already there for in His mind we already reign with Him in the heavenlies.

  No one is predestined to Hell by God.  They predestined themselves when they did not believe.  Had they believed they would have been in the known, called and predestinated to be like Christ group. May sound like schematics but “whosoever will”, “choose ye this day” and “examine yourselves to see if ye be in the faith” makes no sense if God deliberately chose someone to Hell as they could do none of those things.  If they have a free will they can.  

  Now, if you start the Church in the Gospels rather than in Acts 2, you will get confused over once saved versus losing your salvation.  Most of the verses used by Arminians are pulled from there like “endure to the end”.  However, He is speaking to the Jews not the Church and the salvation in that passage may not mean soul salvation but rather salvation from the trouble much like a woman being saved through childbearing does not mean if you have children you go to heaven automatically.

  While we can use principles from the OT and God’s dealings with Israel, we are in the NEW Covenant and He deals with us in some very different ways thus trying to mix the two violates His teaching on putting new wine in old bottles.  Too many theologies have burst the bottle and both are lost.

  If you want first century teachings then put Wesley, Calvin and the rest of the lads down and just read Paul through biblical glasses not theologians’.   When Calvin wrote the Catholics were jailing Christians, confiscating their property and even killing them.  People were concerned that God might desert them or they could lose their salvation so Calvin found eternal security but he looked down the sight of His Bible rifle squinting a bit too hard blurring the cross hairs and missed the bull’s eye.   Later people  got sloppy and rejoiced in their security and ended up “sinning that grace may abound.”   Arminius saw that and seeking to combat the laxity and immorality got out his gun and did the same thing as Calvin.  They tried too hard and in essence developed theology based upon their culture rather than letting their theology develop their culture.  We are still doing that today with our seeker churches, emerging churches, blah, blah, blah.

  May God grant you wisdom and discernment as you study His word in order to change your world and maybe the rest of it as well.