Expert: Dr Don Howe - 7/4/2008

Question
Greetings Dr. Howe,

I enjoyed reading your commentary on the current state of the Christian church. You have some very interesting points. As for your statements on SDA beliefs vs. SDB beliefs, I have provided the following...

SDA Beliefs on Baptism

I’m not sure where this text comes from. Is “SDA’s Believe” a publication of some sort? Regardless, you have the SDA stance on baptism mistaken here. SDAs do NOT believe that baptism will save anyone! Baptism is an outward action that symbolizes your inner conversion, your rebirth in Christ. It is not the act that makes one saved, it is the TRUE experience of conversion and giving your life to Christ. It would be a sad mistake for anyone to believe that a mere act could determine one’s salvation. God knows our hearts, and it is what is in the heart that determines salvation.

But let us also look at what the Bible says about Baptism. “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5) “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” (Mark 16:16.) You see, there is a clear distinction here: “he that believeth and…”. The believing part is essential. The outward act is meaningless if it is unaccompanied by believing. And by the way, let it be known, Adventists firmly believe that we are saved by grace. But shall we continue in sin because of grace? Certainly not!

Investigative Judgement

I’m not as learned in all aspects of the Investigative Judgment as I am in the other areas of the Adventist beliefs, but based on what you have provide above, this seems to be a pretty harmless teaching if it was in fact false. It certainly does not turn people from obeying God, nor does it call for any extra practices that could be deemed ritualistic or otherwise unsatisfactory to God. From what I have investigated on my own about Ellen White, is that she has been widely misunderstood as well as wrongfully accredited with unusual statements. But what Adventists and non-Adventists should BOTH know, is that the Bible is our ONLY test of faith; not the writings or teachings of man (or woman). This is the official Adventist stance, but unfortunately not all Adventists realize this.

It is absolutely correct that the hour of Christ’s return is unknown to man. After all, that’s what the Bible says. I know that Adventist’s get a bad wrap because of their association with The Great Disappointment. What needs to be understood is that Adventist was spawned from a reformed group that had prior been part of the Millerite movement. Are any of God’s people perfect? I think God makes a point of showing that even His closest followers, as well as the prophets, had faults and short-comings. Look at Moses, David, Peter, Paul, and so forth.

Continued belief in any calculations regarding the end times pertain only to the belief that we are currently in the times of God’s judgment on the world. Adventists especially know the error of trying to determine Christ’s return. It is a wasted effort. The importance here is that we ready ourselves and others for Christ’s return by following Him whole-heartedly, and seeking to obey Him as He has shown us how.

State of the Dead/Hell

My friend, I’m sincerely sorry, but again you are mistaken on an Adventist belief, this one being soul sleep. SDAs do NOT teach there is no such thing as Hell. Hell is the punishment for the unrighteous who will not be saved. However, Adventists do not believe that when you die you get your reward or punishment immediately. Here is what the Bible says:

“Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish”. (Psalm 146:3, 4)

“For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in anything that is done under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6)

“For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day”. (Isaiah 38:18, 19)

We know that the Bible often times presents illustrations, parables, and other images that are not necessarily meant to be taken literally—for example the dragons and beasts in Revelation.  Think on this matter though. At the Ascension of Jesus, many were raised from the dead and taken to Heaven. Are we to believe that they were plucked from the Heavenly realm to be placed back on earth, just to ascend to Heaven? This does not make much sense. Nor would it make sense for Jesus to resurrect Lazarus by plucking him from a happy place in Heaven, back to this sinful world.

A final point on Hell-fire: Can you imagine being in Heaven after Jesus returns and knowing that loved ones who did not make it are suffering and being tormented, eternally! Not only do I think that God wouldn’t want that for us, but I don’t think our God is one who enjoys torment and vengeance.

Final Thoughts

As a highly educated man, I’m sure you know it is important to make conclusions based on information from the best possible source. I do not mean this with the slightest disrespect. I think you are deriving your conclusions from a third party source. If you want to understand what Adventists believe, you should get the information straight from the horse’s mouth, not anti-Adventist literature. Check out Adventist.org or perhaps ask one of the Adventist  SDA experts on the SDA page, most are well-equipped to provide official doctrinal beliefs.

In a previous response, you claimed Ellen White to be heretic and a false prophet. Can you please provide me with this evidence that you have chosen to believe?

Thank you for your response, my friend. Again, I pray that the Holy Spirit works in our hearts as we seek truth. God promises that if we sincerely seek truth, He will reveal it to us.

God bless,

Eddie


Answer
    Eddie, thank you for your response. Remember it is okay to agree or disagree on certain things,  but we have to agree that Jesus died on the cross, He is our Savior, He arose on the third day and sits at the right hand of the Father, and we maintain a relationship. It is wrong to base one’s disagreements on false doctrine, using poor interpretations of the Scripture to justify this falsifications, and then when the truth about their falsifications are  brought forth to them, they rationalize and still do not believe. We have to interpret Scripture in the literal grammatical-historical hermeneutics, and exegete in the biblical language to pull the nuggets out of Scripture that God has given us in His Word. Peter talks about this twisting or using allegory in 2 Peter 3:16 states “As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” The word wrest is a Greek verb strebloō which means to twist or put on the torture rack. We have to always “rightly divide the word of truth.” This I will do and show you the false doctrinal errors of the SDA, I will use some the SDA’s own writings, show that Ellen White was a heretic and false prophet, and the very own Scriptures of the SDA do not support their doctrine.
A.    Eddie you made the following statement “you have the SDA stance on baptism mistaken here. SDAs do NOT believe that baptism will save anyone! Baptism is an outward action that symbolizes your inner conversion, your rebirth in Christ. It is not the act that makes one saved, it is the TRUE experience of conversion and giving your life to Christ. It would be a sad mistake for anyone to believe that a mere act could determine one’s salvation. God knows our hearts, and it is what is in the heart that determines salvation.” Eddie you are correct but the SDA believes different, one has to be "baptized to be saved.”
  From the SDA website http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/index.html in the “We Believe” statement states “Through baptism we are truly born again in Jesus.” No where in the Bible does it say we have to be baptized to be saved or born again. This is false teaching. Paul refutes this doctrine in Eph. 2:8 which states “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God.” It is by God’s grace through our faith that we are saved which is free gift (how awesome that is), God said nothing about baptism saving us. Peter also states in 1 Peter 3:21 “The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”  Peter is careful  point out that it isn’t the actual water washing of baptism that saves us, but the spiritual reality behind the immersion in water. Peter does not say anything about baptism saving us.          Continuing  on from their own SDA website http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/fundamental/index.html which states in ‘Fundamental Belief’ they give another false statement “By baptism we confess our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.”  Through baptism we confess nothing. Peter in Acts 2:38 states “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” In this verse Peter is answering the question from verse 2:37 “what shall we do.” The first thing is to repent and word repent is metanoeō which means to change one’s mind or heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins; IT DOES NOT SAY TO CONFEESS as stated in the above SDA statement. The second thing Peter says they must do is be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, as an expression of their belief and complete trust in Him (Jesus) but Peter said nothing again about confession. And the third thing that happens is you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is nothing more than  “the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus .“  The same website cites these verse as way of backing up their false belief, but problem they do not support Baptismal Regeneration is what this is in a nutshell: Rom. 6:1-6; Col. 2:12, 13; Acts 16:30-33; 22:16; 2:38; Matt. 28:19, 20.A.   Acts 2:38- I have refuted this verse as noted above.
B.   Romans 6:1-6 states “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.” Being baptized in Christ,  Paul is referring  to being baptized - “immersed” or “covered over” in Christ Jesus. This does not say baptism is a confession or that we have to be baptized in order to be saved as states above by the SDA beliefs. “Buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life” is the believer’s water baptism (or, being baptized into Christ) is a dramatization or “acting out” of the believer’s “immersion” or identification with Jesus in His death and resurrection. This again does not say anything about through baptism we are saved, but only an identification with Jesus in His death and resurrection.
C.   Col. 2:12 states “Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with            him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.” Paul is stating  baptism does illustrate our identification with the death and resurrection life of Jesus. We were buried with Jesus, and buried under the water. We are also raise with Him, and raised up out of the water. Nothing is said in this verse that you have to be baptized to be saved. By God’s grace are you saved through faith only. You can be saved without ever being baptized.
D.   Acts 16:30-33 states “And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [their] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.” The Jailer was so overwhelmed with the love of Paul and Silas he fell down trembling. Jailer asked “what must I do to be saved?”  which is salvation by grace alone, received by faith alone, AND DOES NOT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT SAVED BY BAPTISM.
E.    Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” To really understand verse 16, you have go back to verse 14 in which Paul has already had his Damascus road experience, heard and seen the resurrected Lord Jesus. Annanias was a devout man of the Lord Jesus and he went to get Paul. Paul had been chosen by God to know His will, seen the Just One (which is the Lord Jesus he saw on the Damascus Road), and heard the voice of Jesus. And verse 15 tells us what Paul is suppose to do which was thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.” And then verse 16, is referring to the fact since Paul had  seen and heard the Lord Jesus and believed on the Lord Jesus first, second he would be baptized, and third his sins were washed away by the calling on the name of the Lord, not by baptizing. Luke uses the word ‘and’ show that hearing the word ‘and’ and being baptized are to separate acts separate from each other. And then your sins are washed away by the calling on the name of the Lord. Again, the SDA can not use Acts 22:16 to substantiate saved by baptism.
F.   Matt. 28:19-20 states “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.” Jesus is giving the commandment to the Apostles to go out and teach all the nations about Him, baptizing then in the name of the Trinity.  Note that the teaching comes first is what saves people  and then the baptizing in the name or identification of the Trinity. There is no way you can use this verse and justify one has to be baptized to be saved, it is the teaching of about Christ to all nations that saves. Eddie, the SDA can not justify baptism to be saved even by the very verses given on their website as each was explained above. If you still do not believe you are in denial. But you can believe what you want to by rightly dividing the word of truth Baptism Regeneration is false doctrine and works salvation driven i.e. you have to be baptized to be saved this is works.       
 This false doctrine is also found in the  SDA publication SDA's Believe (pp. 182, 184, 187) which states “Christ made it clear that He required baptism of those who wished to become part of his church, His spiritual kingdom." "In baptism believers enter into the passion experience of our Lord." ". . .[Baptism also marks [a] person's entrance into Christ's spiritual kingdom. . .it unites the new believer to Christ. . .Through baptism the Lord adds the new disciples to the body of believers - His body, the church. . .then they are members of God's family.” No where in Scripture does it say that Jesus required baptism for you to belong to his church but God said by “God’s grace through faith (not baptism) are you saved.” This is a false statement and the above Scriptures refute this. No where in Scripture will you find that you have to be baptized to have “entrance into Christ’s spiritual kingdom.” This is a another false statement. What the SDA believe in called BAPTISMAL REGENERATION. INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT.
Out of the SDA Believe (page 312) states “In 1844…[Christ] entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgement which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin… It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgement vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom.” This doctrine is straight from Hell itself. It is false through and through and can not be defended biblically. One of the main characteristics of a false prophets is they like to set dates, which never come true. Ellen White fits this description all the way.     Ellen White states in her own Great Controversy (pp. pp. 480, 482–84, 486, 623) ““…[O]ur High Priest enters the holy of holies [in 1844]…to perform the work of investigative judgement and to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits… Every man’s work passes in review before God and is registered for faithfulness or unfaithfulness… The law of God is the standard by which the characters and the lives of men will be tested in the judgement… As the books of record are opened in the judgement, the lives of all those who have believed on Jesus come in review before God… Names are accepted, names rejected… as they have become partakers of the righteousness of Christ, and their characters are found to be in harmony with the law of God, their sins will be blotted out, and they themselves will be accounted worthy of eternal life… Jesus does not excuse their sins, but shows their penitence and faith, and, claiming for them forgiveness, He lifts His wounded hands before the Father… Sins that have not been repented of and forsaken will not be pardoned and blotted out of the books of record, but will stand to witness against the sinner… [Christ] had kept His Father’s commandments, and there was no sin in Him… this is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble.”      The Watchman Expositor summarizes this false doctrine by stating “the whole concept of the investigative judgement is antithetical to the Gospel. Jesus did not wait until 1844 to enter the Holy of Holies in heaven (Heb. 1:3; 6:19–20; 8:1; 9:6–12, 24; 12:2). Neither is he still making an atonement in heaven (Heb. 9:25–26; 10:11–14). The investigative judgement proposes to “vindicate the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus,” by showing they were “loyal,” “penitent,” and “faithful” commandment keepers. This is an outrage. God’s justice in saving sinners is vindicated by Christ’s death on the cross, period (Rom. 3:24–26). Even when speaking of being saved by the righteousness of Christ, Adventist writers refer to imparted righteousness, seldom to the biblical concept of imputed righteousness. Calling it “Christ’s righteousness,” while insisting on the believer’s perfection of character as a prerequisite to salvation, is at worst a thinly veiled works salvation, or at best an attempt to mix grace and works, something the Bible says is impossible to do (Rom. 11:6). Mrs. Whites words are crystal clear—one will not be forgiven until all sins are eradicated from one’s life and one’s character is perfected. Precisely the same heresy is found (besides many others) in Mormonism. It is not the salvation by grace alone through faith alone offered in the Bible. The error is compounded by the teaching that this latter day 1844 event must be believed in to exercise the proper faith necessary to be saved. When Jesus said on the cross, “It is finished,” i.e. completed, paid in full, it cannot be that there is yet another salvation event more than 1800 years later, just as essential to salvation as Christ’s death on the cross, in which one must believe in order to be saved. This is clearly “another gospel” (Gal. 1:6–9).” SDA STATE OF THE DEAD AND HELLEddie you stated “, I’m sincerely sorry, but again you are mistaken on an Adventist belief, this one being soul sleep. SDAs do NOT teach there is no such thing as Hell. Hell is the punishment for the unrighteous who will not be saved.” Eddie there is a literal Hell in fact Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven. As far as SDA not believing in a literal Hell, you need to read some of your denomination’s teaching. For example, Ellen White, the false prophet, had a complete revulsion about a literal Hell which totally contrary of where you stated “SDAs do NOT teach there is no such thing as Hell.”   
Eddie you have to understand what Hell is and who is in it. In the Old Testament,  Hell was mentioned as Shoel, Hades, or Gehenna. When the Old Testament saints died they went to a place called Abraham’s bosom (I will mention this place later) and they waited til Abraham’s bosom was emptied out when Jesus ascended to Heaven. If you remember that some of the Old Testament saints walked the street after Jesus said it was finished, there was also an Earthquake, the Earth rented, and the veil in the Temple tore completely into. So for the Old Testament saints to walk the streets, they had to be in Abraham’s bosom because Jesus had not ascended to Heaven yet to prepare place for them.  Some apologist refer this to Paradise, and Jesus told the thief that was on the cross that he would be with him in Paradise. In the New Testament, Hell is referred as a literal Hell or sometimes Hades. Hell is different place then the Lake of Fire. The unrighteous of Old Testament and New Testament dispensations are tormented alive in Hell and are not annihilated. After the White Throne Judgment, which is a judgment of the unrighteous, Satan, and False Prophet will be sent to the Lake of Fire which is an final eternal place of torment.    
The Great Controversy (p. 469,470,477,478,483) Ellen White stated “How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell. . . . And how utterly revolting is the belief that as soon as the breath leaves the body the soul of the impenitent is consigned to the flames of hell! ... the doctrine of natural immortality first borrowed from pagan philosophy, and in the darkness of the great apostasy incorporated into the Christian faith, has supplanted the truth. . . . The theory of eternal torment is one of the false doctrines that constitute the wine of the abomination of Babylon. . . . But those who have not, through repentance and faith, secured pardon, must receive the penalty of transgression ... covered with infamy, they sink into hopeless, eternal oblivion. . . . There will then be no lost souls to blaspheme God as they writhe in never-ending torment; no wretched beings in hell will mingle their shrieks with the songs of the saved” (my emphasis). Ellen White is stating how repugnant she feels about the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternal burning Hell. She states how utterly revolting to believe that once the breath leaves the body the soul of the impenitent is consigned to the flames of hell. Eddie, your own Ellen White is denouncing a literal Hell which is totally contrary to what you said “SDAs do NOT teach there is no such thing as Hell.” Ellen taught there was not literal Hell. If Ellen White denounces a literal Hell then the SDA denounces a literal Hell because the SDA thinks she is prophet. Ellen White was a stupid, illiterate (she needs to learn how read the Bible as it is written), religiously grandiose, narcissistic (totally enthroned with herself),  a  false prophet.    Ellen White needs to listen  to what Jesus said in Matt. 25:41 “Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” The  word  everlasting is aiōnios which means without end or never to cease. Jesus clearly points out that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. Men only go there because they have willingly cast their lot with the devil and his angels. Verse 41 shows that there is a literal Hell as it was prepared for the devil and his angels. It would totally contrary to the nature of God to prepare a hypothetical Hell for the devil and angels, so it has to be a real place. In Matt. 25:46 states “And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” Everlasting is aiōnios just as in verse 41 which means never to cease and the word punishment is kolasis which means torment. So it is to say the righteous experience life forever, then we must say that the guilty experience punishment or torment forever. Note that the guilty are experiencing never ceasing torment which means they have to be alive to experience anything, and not annihilated. If they are totally annihilated they would not be experiencing anything.     So according to Ellen White, SDA do not believe in a literal Hell because she does not believe in a literal Hell. Ellen White is the final authority for the SDA. So Eddie your statement “SDAs do NOT teach there is no such thing as Hell” is not a true  statement based on her authority not God’s Word as God has the only authority. SOUL SLEEP:     Eddie you stated “ Adventists do not believe that when you die you get your reward or punishment immediately” so I assuming you are referring to the false doctrine of soul sleep. Again coming off the SDA own website, they state “The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people.”     In The Great Controversy (pp. 477-478), the false guru Ellen White, herself,  stated “How utterly revolting is the belief that as soon as the breath leaves the body the soul of the impenitent is consigned to the flames of hell! ... Upon the fundamental error of natural immortality rests the doctrine of consciousness in death—a doctrine, like eternal torment, opposed to the teachings of the Scriptures, to the dictates of reason, and to our feelings of humanity.” Ellen White should have read John 11:24-26 which states “Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” Lazarus has died and Jesus is talking with Martha and Martha tells Jesus that Lazarus will rise in the resurrection at the last day referring to the Second Coming of Christ (vs. 24). In verse 25, Jesus says “I am the resurrection, and the life, he that beliveth in me shall never die,” so the body dies (dead)  but the spirit will live. And when we believe in the resurrection and life will never die. No matter how revolting Ellen White says it is to her, this verse confirms that when the “breath leaves the body” the body dies and  the soul or spirit will lives on either in the resurrection of Jesus (Heaven) or in “flames of hell” if a non-believer. David Guzik states “the believer will never die, but simply make an instant transition from an old life to a new life.” Walvood and Zuck in The Bible Knowledge Commentary (P. 314) states “At death the spiritual part of a believer, his soul, goes to be with the Lord (2 Cor. 5:6,8; Phil. 1:23).”    Luke 16:19-26 tells us the story of Lazarus and the rich man. Jesus is telling this story as if has exact knowledge of its occurrence due his naming the poor beggar, Lazarus. Verse 19 tells us that there was a rich man who dressed up in purple and ate very well each day, and did not want for anything. Vs 20 tells us that a certain beggar man, who was full of sores, named Lazarus laid at the gate everyday. The beggar man desired nothing more than to eat the crumbs from the rich man’s table (vs. 21). Lazarus died and was carried by angels into Abraham’s bosom and the rich man died also (vs. 22).  This was where I stated earlier that the O.T. saints when they died.     Verse 23 states “And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.” This verse just totally refutes soul sleep and makes a liar out of Ellen White. The rich man was in hell and he opened his eyes. If he was dead and unconscious as the doctrine of soul sleep and what Ellen White believed, he would not been able to open his eyes because his spirit would be asleep with his body in the grave. And the rich man was not annihilated in hell as the doctrine of soul sleep tells us. He was alive in torment in hell. And the rich man in hell saw Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom, so again the rich man was alive in hell.    Verse 24 states “And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.” This verse further refutes soul sleep, because the rich man in hell cried and spoke in a voice “Father Abraham, have mercy on me. So the rich man was alive in hell. He was able to feel and think and speak words so he was conscious not unconscious as soul sleep would imply. Rich man was able to feel thirst, ask for water, and he could consciously recognize he was in torment. Does not sound like he was unconscious as stated by soul sleep and Ellen White.     Verse 25 states “But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.” Abraham further refutes soul sleep when states that Lazarus is comforted and rich man is tormented because both are alive, can feel, can think, conscious, feel pain and torment, feel thirst, and feel comfort. You could not feel any of these things if you spirit was asleep in the grave with the body.     There are many other verses that I could use to further refute soul sleep but one can get the idea that soul sleep is false doctrine.
LOOK AT EDDIE’S VERSES FOR SOUL SLEEP:  
A). Eddie you stated “Adventists do not believe that when you die you get your reward or punishment immediately. Here is what the Bible says:Let’s examine your verses you have proposed. First is Psa. 146:3-4 which you are using to justify soul sleep. Accordingly, when you die the body and soul go unconscious until the Second Coming. Luke 16:19-26 refutes this teaching. Let see what Psa. 146: 1-6 really has to say and it the psalmist states: “Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul. While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being. Put not your trust in princes, [nor] in the son of man, in whom [there is] no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Happy [is he] that [hath] the God of Jacob for his help, whose hope [is] in the LORD his God:” Psalm 146  is the first of five hymns of praise which conclude the Psalter, called “Hallel Psalms, “Hallel” is Hebrew for “praise.” and part, along with Psalm 145, of the daily morning prayer in the synagogue, even today. Although it is indebted to earlier psalms and prayer-traditions verse two and Psalm 104:33; v. 3 and Psalm 118:9; v. 7 and Psalm 103:6; and v. 8b and Psalm 145:14, this psalm is postexilic in composition. In verse 1 of Psa. 146, the psalmist is saying “Praise ye the LORD, O my soul.”  “To praise” is to recognize a quality or qualities in another, usually not so obvious until they are stated out loud. It is barely distinguishable from “thanks,” for the recognition or acknowledgement is intended to evoke gratitude on the part of the speaker or hearer or both. While this word is used of humans, especially in exalting beauty and truth, it is most frequently reserved for God. Psalmist will be praising the LORD with all his inner most being.In verse 2,  Praise the Lord, my soul: The psalmist exhorts himself, talks himself into praising God for it is fitting. The beginning of formal prayer is a decision to pray. Here, it is a decision to praise God throughout life.In verse 3 is one the verse you are using to justify “Adventists do not believe that when you die you get your reward or punishment immediately.”  In verse three, put no trust in princes: “Princes,” nedibim in Hebrew, stands for human power without God. “Princes” would be a term for “men of excellence,” but not necessarily moral excellence. Do not trust the son of man, because human beings, on their own power, no matter how “excellent,” well positioned, well endowed, etc, can deliver nothing without or outside of the power of God. Human beings are subject to sudden collapse and death. God is not. The Nelson Study Bible furthers this ideal not trusting man and states “the point is that even the best of people are not adequate help in times of terrible stress. Even princes are mortal, and are not able even to help themselves. In contrast is the individual who finds ultimate help in God who lives forever.”    This verse does not say anything about getting your reward when you die.In verse 4, In Hebrew breath is ruwach refers to a man’s spirit. The word forth in Hebrew is yatsa' which means to depart. The psalmist is saying a man spirit (ruwach) goes forth or departs (yatsa) from him, but his body returneth to the earth. Then the psalmist further explains that when he returns to the earth or dust, and his thoughts will perish with him because his body has died. His spirit (ruwach) has departed (yatsa) from the body already. This verse refutes soul sleep, it does not confirm it. Eccl. 12:7 further explains about the spirit departs the body and the body returns to the earth, it states “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.” In verse 5, the psalmist tells us our hope is in the Lord who is the God of Jacob.    Sorry Eddie, Psa. 146:1-5 refutes soul sleep and does not say anything about getting your reward when you die.    
B). Eddie you cited  Ecclesiastes 9:5-6. One needs to go to Eccl. 9:3-6 which states “This [is] an evil among all [things] that are done under the sun, that [there is] one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness [is] in their heart while they live, and after that [they go] to the dead. For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun.    
For verse 3 to be understood you have to refer back to verse 2 Solomon is saying that there is one event for the righteous, the wicked, good and clean, unclean, ones who sacrifice and ones who do not, the good, or the sinner under the sun (verse 3). In verse 3, Solomon goes on to state the heart of men are evil and have madness in their heart while they live and one event waiting for all of them is “after that [they go] to the dead.” Dead here in the Hebrew is muwth which is to put to death, executed, or die prematurely. So man that has an evil and madness in his heart will be punished by death.
  In verse 4, Solomon is saying the  man who has joined, which in Hebrew is chabar means to join, bind together, or unite, or is united to the living there is hope. For a living man united to the hope which is God, it better for him to be a living dog than a dead lion. Solomon is pointing out there is life and there is hope of doing something for the glory of God.    
 In verse 5, the living know they will die but the dead will not know anything because they are physically dead returning to the dust of the ground. The dead will not have any reward. Solomon states that the  for the memory of them is forgotten by the world. This does not say the dead lost their memory due to being unconscious as SDA like to us this, but remberance of them is forgotten by the world because they have died. Don’t take it out of context to support soul sleep as the confirmation is not there.    
 In verse 6, Solomon tells us the sinful man love, hatred, and envy are have perished, and they will have anymore portions in the future under the sun.    
C). Eddie the third verse you cited is  Isaiah 38:18-19 which states “For the grave cannot praise thee, death can [not] celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I [do] this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.”     In verse 18, Hezekiah has been restored to health and he giving thanks to the Lord. He is stating that the dead can not praise the Lord, and death can not celebrate to the Lord. Those that go down in the pit, which is bowr in Hebrew means cistern, dungeon, or pit, but is not referring to Shoel or Hell, have no hope. King Hezekiah is noting that in death one’s activities on earth are stopped and that one’s service on earth for God terminates. Hope for a temporal life cannot be extended beyond death, but the hope for eternal life remains beyond death. This does not say that the dead are unconscious or getting your reward when you die so can confirm soul sleep using this verse.    
 In verse 19, The living shall praise the Lord just as Hezekiah was doing. Just as God was faithful to him and healed him, so should a father teach their children about the truth of God. Pretty straight forward and needs no explanation.  WHY ELLEN WHITE IS A HERETIC AND FALSE PROPHET   Having false prophets today is nothing new. Apostle Peter told us in 2 Peter 2:1 that they would be present in this age. He states  “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”  “The false prophets also among the people” is referring to the Jews, and they had their share of false prophets. “There shall be false teachers among you” and the “you” is referring to the gentiles, that means us. Note Peter said there were false prophets to the Jews, but there were only false teachers to the gentiles, because Paul tells us that prophesy would end. So prophesy ends then you can not have prophets, but only teachers. But false prophets like Ellen White like to act prophets and give prophetic utterances. But people like her are false then where does prophecy come from? Peter tells us in 2 Peter 1:21 where prophecy comes from “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost.” It is wrong and invalid to twist prophecy to our own personal meaning, because prophecy does not come from man, but from God, though it comes through holy men of God - but only as they are moved by the Holy Spirit. So prophecy comes only from God and not man. If man gives any false prophetic predictions or saying they are drawing out of their own well and it is not from God, which only proves further they are a fake.      
So God’s Word tells us there will be false teachers during this church age and that prophecy comes only from him, anything other from him is made up garbage. EXAMPLES OF WHY SHE IS A FALSE PROPHET1.   Ellen White is a heretic and false prophet.
1. One of the biggest examples of a false prophet is that they like to be date setters, which never come true. And she definitely blew it on setting dates in 1844 that Jesus would return. Jesus himself said that no one not even himself knew the time of his Second Coming, but only the Father. How does Ellen White think she knows more than God and she set dates and expect God to jump because they made the predictions. This is the investigative judgment false doctrine that she set forth in SDA, and they defend even today. False Doctrine= false religion. Be careful.
2.   Ellen White missed it on soul sleep. The story of Lazarus in Luke just blows this false teaching all the way to the moon. Eddie, believe what you want to but believing in false teaching makes only false believers.
3. Mrs. White said: The tower of Babel was built before the Flood     The Bible Says: The tower of Babel was built after the Flood
4. Mrs. White said: God sent and angel to converse with Cain    The Bible Says: "Then the Lord said to Cain" Genesis 4:6
5.  Mrs. White said: We should never say we are saved     The Bible Says: "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved . Acts        16:31.  
6. Mrs. White said: The atonement was not finished at the cross      The Bible Says: " . . . but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time             Hebrews 10:12.   
7. Mrs. White said: Satan bears our sins The Bible Says: " . . . and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross . . . " 1 Peter 2:24.
8.   Mrs. White said: We are saved through grace plus works The Bible Says: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not of works, that no one should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9.
9.   The Holy Spirit will leave the believer Selected Messages, Bk. 1, p. 126.. John 14:16-17 states “And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you can know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.”
10.     Christians  will  stand  before  God  without  Christ’s mediation. Ellen White stated “Those  who  are  living  upon  the  earth  when  the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. The Great Controversy, p. 425.         Hebrews 7:25 states “Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them .        .\
  Eddie, this is just a few and there are hundreds more false statements that Ellen White made. Some are just plain from the Devil and evil to the in their being so far off the mark in being contrary to the word of God. Go to http://www.exadventist.com/book/ and you can check out all of them on your own and the references where they came from.    
I hope this helps someway.
 Eddie, you need to get out the SDA and find you a bible believing church which is built on the Word of God and not the false teaching of a man or woman. But you can believe what you want. But always accept Jesus Christ as your Savior and we will be brothers in Christ til we are called home.   
Do not ask me anymore questions about the SDA, Ellen White, or the SDA doctrines, as you probably will not believe it anyway. Research takes enormous amount of hours and it is no good to you if you do not believe what you see and what you know as the truth. Always rightly divide the Word of Truth and it will set you free.
 Blessing to you brother as we make this Spiritual Journey that God has set us on.

Dr Don Howe, RN, PhD, ThD