Expert: Elder Greg Madden - 2/24/2009

Question
QUESTION: QUESTION REWORDED:

Are Baptists aware of God's plan for the ages of time?

CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
Mistranslation of the Greek word "aion" is a master stroke of diabolical genius. Perhaps no other word erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion in the church. Because the understanding of the eons and Gods purpose in them has been lost, the church is divided on such important teachings as man's destiny, grace, election, salvation, security of the believer, judgment and other issues. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in his quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html
Also see
TIME AND ETERNITY
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/time/


ANSWER: Rodger,

Though I am still not quite sure what your question is, I will assume that you are speaking of what is commanly called the "The gospel of inclusionism". I will answer with this assumtion, but you can let me know if I am mistaken.

If this is what you are eluding to, then I would say that 99.999% of all Baptist (as well as most other churches) would disagree with this so-call "gospel". Why? Consider the following...


The gospel of inclusion is simply the old heresy of universalism re-packaged and given a new name. Universalism is the belief that all people will eventually be saved and go to heaven. The gospel of inclusion, as taught by Carlton Pearson, encompasses these false beliefs:

(1) The gospel of inclusion espouses that the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ paid the price for all of humanity to enjoy eternal life in heaven without any need for repentance.

(2) The gospel of inclusion teaches that salvation is unconditional and does not even require faith in Jesus Christ as the payment for mankind’s sin debt.

(3) The gospel of inclusion believes that all humanity is destined to life in heaven whether or not they realize it.

(4) The gospel of inclusion declares that all humanity will go to heaven regardless of religious affiliation.

(5) Lastly, the gospel of inclusion holds that only those who intentionally and consciously reject the grace of God—after having “tasted the fruit” of His grace—will spend eternity separated from God.

The gospel of inclusion runs counter to the clear teachings of Jesus and the Bible. In John’s gospel, Jesus clearly states that the only path to salvation is through Him (John 14:6). God sent Jesus into the world to secure salvation for a fallen humanity, but that salvation is only available to those who place their faith in Jesus Christ as God’s payment for their sin (John 3:16). The apostles echo this message (Ephesians 2:8-9; 1 Peter 1:8-9; 1 John 5:13). Faith in Jesus Christ means no longer trying to secure salvation based on works, but rather trusting that what Jesus did was sufficient to secure salvation.

In conjunction with faith is repentance. The two go hand-in-hand. Repentance is a change of mind about your sin and need for salvation through Christ by faith (Acts 2:38). The act of repentance is one in which we acknowledge that before God we’re sinners incapable of earning our way to salvation, so we repent (the Greek word for “repent” literally means “to change your mind”) of our sins—we turn away from them—and seek Christ by faith.

Jesus offers the gospel of salvation to everyone who is willing to repent and believe (John 3:16). However, Jesus Himself said that not everyone will believe (Matthew 7:13-14; John 3:19). No one likes to think that a loving and gracious God would send people to hell, but that is exactly what the Bible teaches. In the clearest teaching Jesus gave regarding the final judgment, He says that at the end the Son of Man will separate all the nations as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. The sheep (representing those who through faith in Jesus Christ have salvation secured) will go into the kingdom with Jesus. The goats (representing those who have rejected the salvation that Jesus offers) will go into hell, which is described as eternal fire (Matthew 25:31-46).

This teaching offends many, so instead of conforming their thinking to the clear teaching of the Word of God, they change what the Bible says on the matter and spread this false teaching to the masses. The gospel of inclusion is a clear example of this.

Here are some additional arguments against the gospel of inclusion:

(1) If faith and repentance are not required to receive the gift of salvation, then why is the New Testament full of calls to repent and place your faith in Jesus Christ?

(2) If salvation doesn’t require faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross, then why did Jesus submit to such a humiliating and excruciatingly painful death? God could have just granted everyone a “divine pardon.”

(3) If everyone is going to go to heaven whether they realize it or not, then what about free will? Is the hard-core atheist who has spent his life rejecting God, the Bible, Jesus, and Christianity going to be dragged into heaven kicking and screaming against his will? To believe this tenet of the gospel of inclusion seems to indicate that heaven will be filled with people who don’t necessarily want to be there.

(4) How can all people go to heaven regardless of religious affiliation if there are many religions which hold to contradictory claims? For example, what about people who believe completely different things about the after-life such as reincarnation or annihilationism (i.e., the idea that at death we are snuffed out of existence)?

(5) Finally, if those who openly reject the grace of God don’t go to heaven, then it’s hardly a gospel of inclusion, is it? Either all people go to heaven, or do not call it the gospel of inclusion; because it still excludes some.

The apostle Paul called the message of the gospel the “fragrance of death” (2 Corinthians 2:16). What he meant by this is that to many, the message of the gospel is offensive. It tells people the truth about their sin and hopeless state without Christ. It tells people that there is nothing they can do to bridge the gap between themselves and God. For centuries, there have been those (many with good intentions) who have attempted to soften the message of the gospel to get more people into church. On the surface, that seems like the wise thing to do, but in the end all it does is give people a false sense of security. It was the apostle Paul who said that anyone who preached a different gospel than the one he preached should be cursed (Galatians 1:8). That is strong language, but once you realize how vitally important the message of the Gospel is, you also realize how vitally important it is to get it right. A false gospel doesn’t save anyone. All it does is condemn more people to hell and generate greater condemnation for those who purvey such falsehoods—such as the gospel of inclusion. (www.gotquestions.org)

Rodger, please let e know if this helps, or if you have any further questions.

Elder Greg Madden




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: SALVATION OUT OF THE LAKE OF FIRE WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH

EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED – SOME THROUGH THE FIRE – BUT ALL THROUGH THE BLOOD

Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/Chapter11.html

It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Aion_lim.html
http://www.savior-of-all.com/aionian.html

According to the Bible everyone is going to heaven - some through the fire, but all through the blood.

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/circularity.htm

We should desire to experience the lake of fire if God sees that is what we need. That's how much we can relax in the arms of God's love.

It is God’s decretive will (that which MUST occur) that everyone violates His preceptive will (that which they OUGHT to do) as much as they actually do because each person is being fitted into God’s master plan in a way that necessitates their own individual experience with sin, evil and suffering. Then when God consummates His plan for the ages of time He will eradicate sin and suffering from existence after everyone has learned all that God wants them to learn from its temporary existence.
http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html

The process of salvation will be completed for the firstfruits of election, (the remnant chosen by grace), after the first resurrection. The process of salvation will be completed for the non-elect after the great white throne judgment. For some, it will include an experience in the lake of fire.

But everyone will be saved out of the lake of fire which is the second death.

You may ask, “What scriptural evidence is there of being saved out of the lake of fire which is the second death?"

There actually is much evidence.

Although the book of Revelation is the last book placed in the Bible, it is not the final revelation of what God is going to do with humanity. The apostle Paul saw way beyond John.

Col.1:25 of which I became a dispenser, in accord with the administration of God, which is granted to me for you, to complete the word of God

There is much evidence that Paul did see way beyond John. For instance, in Revelation there are still kings reigning, and Christ is still reigning along with His followers. There are still sovereignties and powers in force throughout the book of revelation. So John did not see the day when all sovereignty, authority and power would be done away. Paul did. If you will look at 1Corinthians 15:24-28 Paul saw the day when all of these would be done away. He sees the day when "He should be nullifying all sovereignty, authority and power" (vs.24)

Paul sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (vs.25).

Paul sees the day when death (all death which includes the second death) will be abolished (vs.26). Please remember that death will be abolished **after** all the sovereignties, authorities and powers in Revelation have been nullified. Within the book of Revelation, death is still operational as are the afore mentioned powers.

So what is going to happen to all these people who are in death when death is abolished?

They will come forth vivified (made alive beyond the reach of death) (1Cor.15:22).

They will have their lives justified and will be constituted righteous:

Romans 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying.
Romans 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just.

All will be reconciled to God (Col.1:20)

All will be headed up in Christ (Eph.1:10)

All will bow the knee in the name of Jesus and acclaim with their tongue that "Jesus Christ is Lord" to the glory of God, the Father (Phil.2:9-11).
And we know that anyone who acclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord, especially when it is to God's glory without any hypocrisy is saved for 1Corinthians 12:3 says so.

So there is proof that people will go to the second death **when ** the new earth comes. And there is proof that this is not the final goal God has for these people.

In summary then:
The lake of fire is the second death.
The apostle John did not see into the future as far as the apostle Paul.
How do I know this? and what ramifications does this have as to whether or not one gets out of the lake of fire...the second death? Plenty.
In the book of revelation Christ is still reigning; death is still operational; sovereignties, authorities and powers are still in force.
In 1Cor.15:22-28 Paul sees way beyond John's revelation.
He sees the day when Christ will quit reigning (1Cor.15:25).
He sees the day when all sovereignties, authorities and powers are nullified (1Cor.15:24).
He sees the day when death is abolished (1Cor.15:26) and all are then subjected to Christ then Christ is subjected to God and then God is All in all (1Cor.15:28).
So, yes, there is scripture which intimates that all in the lake of fire will come forth and God will be All in all.
Also in 1Cor.15:22 all are dying and in Christ shall all be vivified. So this happens after death for most.
Also in Romans 5:18,19 you have what happens to all mankind due to what Adam did which happens to the exact same all mankind due to what Christ did. But it does not happen to all at the exact same time.
Each in his own order.

Type into Google

The lake of fire Eby

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html  

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/reconciliation-heavens.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/savior-of-the-world/index.htm

Where is a resurrection from the lake of fire which is the second  death  taught in the scriptures?

The lake of fire is distinctly defined as the second death Rev.20:14; 21:8. In it is cast all that is still at enmity with God. So that, death is indeed the last enemy (1 Cor.15:26).
And we are just as decidedly told that Christ is the one who abolishes death and brings life and incorruptibility to light (2 Tim.1:10). The reading "hath abolished" is not true as to fact or as to grammar. It is in the indefinite form (commonly called the aorist tense) simply recording the fact apart from time. Death has not been abolished yet.
How and when it will be abolished is told us in the fifteenth of first Corinthians. It is to be abolished by means of universal vivification (1 Cor.15:22). This takes place at the consummation (1 Cor.15:26).

It is useless to look for plain statements on this subject in parts of the Scriptures whose scope is limited to eonian truth, such as the Revelation. It is unwise to look for it anywhere but in the special portion which deals with this topic. Death and resurrection are exhaustively treated in the, fifteen chapter of first Corinthians and there it is we should look for clear statements as to the ultimate goal. There we are distinctly told that the last enemy that shall be abolished is death (which must refer to the lake of fire, for the first death cannot be the last enemy). And there we are told that it is to be done by a universal vivification rather than resurrection.
The term "resurrection" is applied to those who have afterward died again, such as those who suffer the second death. Hence there is not a resurrection, merely, from the lake of fire, but a vivification beyond which there can be no death.
 
What do you suppose the lake that burns with fire and brimstone will do? It will burn off of mankind the stubborn will which is contrary to the Lord’s will. It will take that which the Lord subjected man to, death, and will burn its bonds off. The flames of fire will lick the lashes of cords that have bound men in rebellion and will dispose of those cords as one would burn refuse in a hot scorching fire. It is the rebellious will, maintained by ignorance that is burned. The same standard of burning happens to the Overcomer. They are baptized in the very same fire. The fire that constitutes the lake that burns with fire and brimstone and the fire upon the brow of the Overcomer are the very same kind of fire. In both cases, whether it be the Overcomer or the unrepentant sinner, the cords of ignorance as to the will of the Lord are burned off. Such is the ordination in fire, no one will escape it.  

Answer
Rodger,

I've already answered your questions in my prvious answer. If you do not agree that is fine, but I did anser your questions. If you have a specific question you would like for me to follow up on fine. But I do not havethe time to answer ever issue in your follow up.


Elder Greg Madden