Expert: Dr. Ronald E. Shultz - 4/7/2010

Question
QUESTION: Dr. Shultz,

I was hoping you could shed some light on an issue. How are we to understand Ephesians 5:24 in today's times? When I read that women are to submit to their husbands as the church submits to Christ some questions are raised.  For instance, as I read the scriptures I see Jesus dictating to the church. What I mean by that is we never see examples of where Jesus asks for the church's opinion or input on a matter. Put simply, Jesus dictates and the church follows without reservation.  Should husbands, too, follow this example and be the sole decision maker? If you disagree, do you have any verses showing where Jesus did anything else but mandate matters to the church?

Also, another instance where the church submits to Christ is the realm of discipline. Jesus very harshly disciplines his church. Some examples would be 1 Cor. 11:32 and Rev. chapters 1 and 2. Are husbands supposed to discipline their wives?

Thank you for any help you can give on the matter.

ANSWER: Hmm,if indeed the Church followed Christ's dictates without reservation we would see a far different Church today and there would not be hundreds of denominations called non or intra and there would be no questions for me to answer since we would all be saying the same thing and being in one accord.  

Jesus did indeed ask people their views on various things and sometimes folks gave the right answer and other times they walked away when He corrected their perspective.

The proper is not with the doctrine of submission but rather the abuse of the doctrine and rebellion against it.

Think about it. If indeed a man was walking close to God and loved His wife as Christ loved the Church and died for it what would he require of his wife that would be ungodly? Nothing. If she was walking so close to the Lord and was submitted unto Him as she is supposed to be would Christ not protect her as He did Sarah when Abraham messed up due to fear?  I would say so. The problems start when we refuse the roles He ordained and are walking completely in the flesh or in partial obedience to God.

God does allow free will.  He will allow us to do things that are not in His will and sometimes the action disciplines us and sometimes He does directly when we sin or just make an unwise decision.  When He does discipline us it is for our good. Hopefully we learn and keep ourselves from even worse issues.  

Does He listen to us?  He heard Hezekiahs prayer and gave him 15 more years of life and even a son though it would have been better for Hezekiah to die since his son turned out to be an evil wretch.  He listened to Moses and spared the rebellious Israelites when He had every right to wipe themout and start over.  If you look you can find other examples.  You will also find places where He listened but did not heed them.  

How did He treat women?  He was kind, comforting and even was that to the Samaritan woman that had been somewhat promiscuous and was living in open sin.  He forgave and defended a prostitute.  Keep looking at Him in both Testaments and you will see He speaks as much by actions to issues as He does specifically addresses them.  

God created woman to be a help meet or fit for man.  In an ideal situation the man's strengths are her weaknesses and her weaknesses are his strengths.  They are then stronger as a couple than they are apart and when they are Christian allowing Christ and the Spirit full control of their lives it is a tag team that cannot be defeated.  

In my family, an example is finances.  My wife is the better bookkeeper and budget maker.  I could exert my manhood or headship and do the books because that is man's work but we would probably have been bankrupt years ago instead of being debt free.  A wise man manages his house well. A fool is abusive and demanding. My wife is a mature adult whom I trust and she has pretty much a free reign.  Am I the head?  Yes, but headship is far more than dicating policy.

Look at the Proverbs 31 woman that few women wish to be since she is a bit of a Wonder Woman.  She had a wide variety of things she had the authority over in her marriage and because she was so good at it her husband was well known in the gates or the local government because of her. Did they communicate?  I am sure.  Did he give her advice or direction?  Probably?  Was she oppressed or second-class?  I don't think so.  She could run rings around the most "liberated" woman in this culture.

As to decisions, anytime you have two people doing a task in the business or military world you have to put someone in charge and where the buck stops and accountability resides.  God said that is the man in a marriage.  Does that demean the woman?  Doesn't have to do so.  If you have two full Colonels on a project from the same career field and with similar accomplishments how do you determine who is in charge? Usually, it the date of rank. If Colonel Smith was promoted on 1 Jun 1990 and Colonel Jones was promoted on 1 July 1990 or even 2 Jun 1990 Colonel Smith will be in charge.  There is no question as to their expertise or neither would be assigned to the project.  Man was created first and God put him in charge so he gets the tie breaker privilege BUT also he will answer to God if he screws the deal up.

See, so many see this headship thing as a wonderful thing but it really is part of the curse.  The man is responsible not only for himself, but his wife and kids.  With that much responsibilty it seem logical that he has the tie breaker.  Yes, they are also responsible for their individual actions but Dad/Hubby is ultimately accountable.  

Again, if the man is smart and loves the woman he will pay attention to her thoughts and desires.  Sometimes that is good and sometimes bad.  Adam should not have listened to Eve but Pilate should have listened to his wife.  The challenge is to have the wisdom and discernment to know when to listen and when not to listen. If he is smart he also knows that he has blind spots and she is there to cover his back.  He also saw some qualties in her that he obviously liked so why stop her from using those qualities to make the marriage better?  

Now, if they just got together for sex or to have an heir then all bets are off and they are in the relationship for selfish reasons and disaster is inevitable.  They are not to be equals sharing assets.  They are to be ONE in purpose and sacrifice for the ONE even if it sometimes means sacrificing what one of the halves wants.  Too many marriages today are really romantic corporate mergers and when one of the parties is unhappy they dissolve the corporation.  What we are doing is not working so maybe we need to look closer at God's program since it was designed to work if men and women would follow it.

Now, do men discipline their wives?  Since the word also includes the concept of being a student or disciple, yes they do, but that does not mean beating them.  We are all to exercise discipline in our lives. We are all to be trained to be orderly in our life by Scripture and the Spirit.  The word does not have to have a negative connotation.  My Drill Sgt disciplined me, not because he loved me for sure, but because he was trying to make sure I stayed alive in combat and would be an accomplished soldier in peace or war.  If I teach or discipline my wife or children it means I want them to accomplish all they can in life and not be ignorant or lack the tools they need to succeed.

Paul said that even if an angel or himself came back and taught another Gospel other than what he originally taught they were not listen to that angel or him.  So if a husband asks/commands his wife to do something evil should she obey?  No.  Christ would never ask His Bride to sin and so if the husband does he is not loving his wife as Christ does the Church and she has no obligation to obey that request.  If he is violent she has every right and should exercise it immediately to remover herself to safety.  Again, while Christ has the authority be "harsh" as you put it to His Church we as humans do not have that authority.  We are enjoined to love enemies and pray for them who despitefully use us but we have no authority to harm our spouses or children.  

In conclusion, I believe your focus was too narrow and you need to see more facets of Christ and you will see a clearer picture of how the submission doctrine functions other than in just dictates or mindless obedience.

Blessings to you as study!









---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Sorry Dr. Shultz- this is not a question. I just wanted to thank you. What insight in your recent answer to my question! You truly have an exhaustive and thorough knowledge of Scripture! I'm glad you didn't take the time to chastise me for even posing a question such as this. I believe in asking blunt and difficult questions concerning Scripture and hoped you wouldn't get the wrong idea from a curt question posed by an unpolitically correct kind of guy. Again, thanks for such a profound answer. With your permission, I would like to share your answer to my Bible study group.

Answer
Thank you for your kind words. I still have a lot to learn. I am called a Maverick for a reason.  I tend to be politically incorrect myself.  There was no need for chastisement.  You cannot learn if you don't ask and you did not come with an arrogant or disrespectful tone so it is all good.  ;-)  I am often taken for blunt myself when really all I am doing is "asking the hard questions" as one of my professors once said about me.  

If I have any wisdom at all it comes from God and since it is His you can share it anywhere you find it useful to glorify Him and help His people.   Many blessings to you and come back and be blunt anytime you like.  ;-)