Expert: Mrs. Priscilla Lyons - 8/16/2010

Question
QUESTION: "Most all Babtist people and preachers I met believe in the
once saved allways saved.

I have a question about this. James says that faith without
works is dead, Jas 2:14. It also says that Abraham was
justified by his works, Jas 2:21. Now I know that we can not
be saved by works, and thus I believe that James is saying
this to prove that true conversion will be followed by
works?

If it is true that all saved people WILL persevere, why is
it then in the Bible that only those who persevere's to the
end shall be saved? Mar 13:13.

I think it implies that some will not persevere unto the end
even if they did persevere for a season.

Thus, if I say that one has to endure to the end or loose
salvation, it is in line with scripture. Also it is not fair
to say that this equals a "works salvation" as one can only
persevere by Gods grace. But as Rom 6 and 8 says. The grace
is their for us to walk in. Thus if we stay in the grace and
in Christ, it is by no doing of our own, but by the grace of
God who granted us the grace to stay there. But if I decide
to walk away, there is no promise for me? (Not that I can
see in scripture).

I would like to hear a Biblical argument about why this is
wrong. Please understand that I am busy figuring this out
and my mind is not made up yet, but every preacher I asked
about this takes me back to "tulip" and other baptist
confessions, and I am not willing to settle for doctrine not
proven with scripture alone.

Regards,
Theunis


ANSWER: Dear Theunis,
   I'm sure you're aware of all the scriptures which emphasize salvation by believing, (John 3:16, etc.) as well as the verses which emphasize the changes that Jesus makes when He lives in us.  There's a balance that comes from getting the whole picture of God's plan.  We need to be reading the Bible every day, going through the entire Bible, over and over through the years.  I've read it through dozens of times and I still notice things I somehow missed before.  God is truly an awesome God, from the minutest, almost invisible things, to the huge things of universes beyond our reach.
   To believe and trust in God for eternal salvation, one has to believe enough to die to self and allow Jesus to live through us, see Romans 6, Gal.2:20.  I think the warnings or encouragements to endure to the end are to make sure you aren't one to whom Jesus says, "I never knew you" even though you've said, "Lord, Lord, in Your name I've done many wonderful works." Matthew 7:21-23
   If it were possible to lose your salvation (Heb.6:6,4), then it's impossible to regain it.  You can't "walk away" because you are not your own, you are bought with a price. I Cor.6:19-20
   However, I would never assure anyone they are saved because I have no idea if they really believe and have the Son of God or not. I John 5:12-13
   You're exactly right--staying in Christ is by no doing of our own, but by the grace of God.  We must rely on Him who has begun a good work in us to perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. Phil.1:6
   If you think you believed God's way was best and surrendered your life to Him, but seemed to have changed your mind, then decided to change it again to want to belong to God again, then I advise to not be concerned about past status, but to just throw yourself upon God's mercy and strength to live for Him.  If you really don't want God in control of your life--you believe your will is better than His will--it would be healthy to doubt whether you have ever really believed God Himself.
   I'm not a TULIP Calvinist.  I don't think God's offer of salvation is limited to the elect.  I believe John 3:16 and other verses that say whosoever, really means whosoever.  Our human mind can't totally comprehend things like God's election while also offering His love and salvation to all, any more than we can totally comprehend the Trinity, or other miracles of God.
   The Bible is simple enough for anyone to accept God's salvation, but deep enough to confound the wise.  May we find nourishment for our spirits from God's Word every day.
   Sincerely,
   Priscilla

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for the response,

I think I understand most of what you are saying.

You say that you are not a tulip calvanist, what others are there? I never heard of them?

Like I said I understand what you are saying, but still, scriptures like he who does not bear fruit will be cut of and cast into the fire. You had to be part of the vine in order to be cut of?

Just for background sake. This is important to me, not because I am afraid of loosing my salvation, for God says that if we seek Him we will find Him. But what about people blieving in Christ, there life has changed, you see the tests in 1 John, and according to that they are truly saved. Thus they will go to heaven, but now they turn word faith movement or Mormon, still saved? Hope you can see my problem?

Regards,

Theunis

Answer
Thanks for writing back.  There are a lot of different Baptist groups, even some who believe you can lose your salvation.  I believe that if you truly belong to God, then God will chastise (Heb.12:8) and/or prune you (purge to bring forth more fruit John 15:2) if you are rebellious or don't read and heed the Bible enough so that you fall for Mormonism or other false thinking.
   The analogy of the vine and branches not only includes the Christians who abide in Jesus, but also the Jews (Romans 11) who never had believed (been saved), yet were "broken off."  John 1:3-4 and Colossians 1:16-17 may help understand this analogy because Jesus is the Source (Vine) of all life, physical and spiritual, saved and unsaved, in this temporary physical life.  The saved will continue to have life through Jesus forever, but the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23)--separated from God spiritually forever, and separated from God physically when they go to hell.  In this temporary life the unsaved benefit from the Source of life (Matthew 5:45).  
   A faith that fails to finish is flawed from the first.  The true faith in Jesus ("I live by the faith of the Son of God" not my puny efforts of faith. Gal.2:20) will abide and endure even though there may be bumps along the road.
   On the other hand, a person's initial "Christianity" may have been no more than Matthew 7:21-23 "I never knew you" (an intimate relationship or kinship).
   There is no way you or I can determine if someone else is truly saved according to I John or any other passage.  But we would obviously never encourage someone to stay in sin (or Mormonism), even if he or she thought they were already saved.
   We're unable to judge the salvation status of others, but we can judge their fruits and respond to them as God gives us opportunity.
   I encourage you to pray for those people God brings to your mind with concern.  Sometimes we never see the results of our prayers, but I trust God enough to follow His leading, no matter what, and we can't know His leading without communication to and from Him (prayer and reading the Bible).  
   Sincerely,
   Priscilla