Expert: John of AllFaith - 8/12/2010

Question
"Most all Babtist people and preachers I met believe in the
once saved allways saved.

I have a question about this. James says that faith without
works is dead, Jas 2:14. It also says that Abraham was
justified by his works, Jas 2:21. Now I know that we can not
be saved by works, and thus I believe that James is saying
this to prove that true conversion will be followed by
works?

If it is true that all saved people WILL persevere, why is
it then in the Bible that only those who persevere's to the
end shall be saved? Mar 13:13.

I think it implies that some will not persevere unto the end
even if they did persevere for a season.

Thus, if I say that one has to endure to the end or loose
salvation, it is in line with scripture. Also it is not fair
to say that this equals a "works salvation" as one can only
persevere by Gods grace. But as Rom 6 and 8 says. The grace
is their for us to walk in. Thus if we stay in the grace and
in Christ, it is by no doing of our own, but by the grace of
God who granted us the grace to stay there. But if I decide
to walk away, there is no promise for me? (Not that I can
see in scripture).

I would like to hear a Biblical argument about why this is
wrong. Please understand that I am busy figuring this out
and my mind is not made up yet, but every preacher I asked
about this takes me back to "tulip" and other baptist
confessions, and I am not willing to settle for doctrine not
proven with scripture alone.

Regards,
Theunis


Answer
Hi Theunis,

This is a bit long but I wanted to give you a thorough answer on this important question.

All sides can make their case in this argument using "proof texts" however when we "rightly divide the Word of Truth" (II Timothy 2:15) I believe the doctrine of our eternal security is clear. In the end God alone grants or withholds salvation according to His Grace and Will and He has told us what we need to do to be "saved." But let's look at the idea of our eternal security a bit deeper.

I agree with you that all man-made creeds and confessions do is show what their adherents believe. That's not enough evidence to base a doctrine on. The Holy Scriptures are to be the source of our beliefs. In this case there is a lot of misunderstanding both about what the Bible teaches and what the "other side" believes.

Those who accept the doctrine of eternal security are not saying one can live however the flesh wills and that's just fine:

Romans 6:1  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
6:2  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Those who embrace "salvation by works" are not excluding God's grace from the equation as you correctly say. They are however saying that our salvation is based in part on our own efforts. Even with the Spirit of God within me I am perfectly capable of committing any sin I choose to. I could go out and commit adultery, kill someone etc. but I choose not to. They are saying my choosing not to is what keeps me "saved" and that violates the teachings of the New Covenant established through Jesus and explained by Paul and others.

So we read:
James 2:17  Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Why is this?

2:18  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

"Faith" (pistis in the Greek) in this context means to be convinced about something. Believing the Gospel is true is not enough. The Devil and his demons believe Jesus was real, they know God is real, etc. Saying one "believes" means nothing. There is "pistis" or belief that a thing is real and then there is embracing that truth fully, acting upon that belief. I believe gas will power my car but unless I put gas in the tank my car wont run. This is James' point. The Greeks and Romans were very philosophic and intellectual. James is saying that accepting the intellectual arguments as valid in favor of the Gospel is not enough. One must be born again (John 3:16,17).

Now let's continue and we will see this principle in action.

James 2:21  Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Actually no, he wasn't! Not as this is being interpreted in either/or terms.

Hebrews 11:8  By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went...

Is this a contradiction? Not at all!

Because by faith (again pistis) Abraham did these things but he did them based on FAITH. It was his faith that saved him not his works. His works stand as a testimony of his faith in God's salvation. Read this chapter of Hebrews for a litany of acts (works) done BECAUSE of faith.

James agrees with this interpretation as he continues:

James 2:22  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
2:23  And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Now we get to the central difference of opinion.

Abraham believed God, he had faith in what God told him. What did he do with that faith? He acted on it.

If Abraham walked up to us and said "I have faith!"
We'd say, "Prove it."
He'd reply, "Well, based on my faith I offered my son etc... because I believed/I had faith in (pistis) in what God told me to do.

But what if he replied, "Well, I... er... I met some angels once at my tent and ah I pray... occasionally... and ah...

We'd say, "I see no evidence of your faith!" This is what James is saying. Paul is clearer when he says:

Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

God has ordained that we should produce fruit.

Has a given person actually been saved? Can you say with certainty that anyone other than yourself (hopefully) has been redeemed?

We can say we believe so because we see evidence in their lives...

Jesus explains:
Matthew 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

We can certainly use discernment and gauge how to interact with others (i.e. as brothers or sisters in the Lord). We can sit under someones teachings because we feel certain they know the Lord and have been called to teach or preach... because:

Matthew 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

But we can not judge another person's salvation and all humans stumble from time to time. Indeed if someone denies this they a liar (I John 1:10)! There are MANY "Christians" who do things or believe things I find ungodly or un-scriptural. I will say, when appropriate, that this or that act or belief is out of harmony with the Scripture and biblical doctrine in my opinion, but I can not add "And so you are not saved!" Only God knows that.

The question is what happens at salvation.
Salvation is not a mere agreement that the Bible is true, an acknowledgment that Jesus died as the paschal lamb for our sins. Again, the Devil believes that too!

Salvation is something much more intimate than mere belief.

Romans 8:15  For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Those who are "saved" or "born again" have been adopted into the family of God and have become joint heirs of the Kingdom. What does this mean?

This means that we have entered into a mutual covenant/contract with God (known as the B'rit Hadashah or "New Covenant"), that we have accepted the terms of that covenant and that as a result God has reciprocated by "adopting" us in His own family. This is why Jesus so often stressed the Fatherhood of God.

Of those who are adopted he says:

John 18:9  .... Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

None.

John 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
10:29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

"Eternal life" means eternal, unending. If salvation were lost at some point it would not be eternal. Once a person is actually adopted, once we are placed into his hands as our mediator with the Father (I Timothy 2:5), we are eternally secure. No one can pluck us out of his care.

The argument to this is that we can remove ourselves, however the text suggests no such thing. Indeed Jesus says of these people which thou gavest me have I lost none.

"I have lost none." It is Jesus who keep us "saved" not our efforts.

As a father I can so relate with this. One of my sons went through a period where he wanted nothing to do with his mom and me, but our love and prayers for him remained unshakable and he grew up. A loving parent never gives up on a child, even when he/she thinks he knows he wants to be abandoned and separated from the family. God is the perfect Parent. He never gives up on His children no matter how foolish we may be.

Understand that salvation is God's gift and His responsibly. Its not the mere recitation of some set prayer, "Dear Jesus I know I sin, come into my heart anyway amen..." it is the entering into a serious covenant relationship with God Almighty! Not everyone who claims to have been "saved" actually were (Matthew 7;21). Both sides must accept the contractual agreement.

We are not capable of holding up our end of this contract! This is why Jesus, our high priest, holds "power of attorney" for us and acts in our behalf (Hebrews 4:14).

Again Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

We don't even have enough faith to get saved in the first place! Even that is God's free gift to us.

2:9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Salvation is not based on our works but on God's Grace. Both sides agree with this. But...

Now that I'm "saved" (as of 1969) if I could say, "I've maintained my salvation through good works, through obedience etc. I'd have 41 years to brag about! I could say, "Look at me! I have maintained my salvation for so many years when others lost theirs in a matter of a few weeks or months! My faith must be really strong huh?"

But no, what does the Word say: ....that not of yourselves and ... Not of works, lest any man should boast. I have NOTHING to boast about! EVERYTHING I have was given to me by God through Jesus. I should have been discarded and left "unsaved" myriad times over the years! But God is faithful and just to forgive our sins and we have a High priest and mediator who makes intercession on our behalf. So...

Romans 8:33  Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
8:34  Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Now consider this. Again people say these verses are only talking about what others can do to us but that does not fit what Paul is saying here:

8:35  Who ["tis" in the Greek which means "who," "which" or "what"] shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

The answer is that NONE of these things, including distress (stenochoria which suggests depression, doubts etc) can do so. Why?

Romans 8:38  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
8:39  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

NOTHING that may come upon me can separate me from the family of God! The same is true of all who have been "grafted in" or adopted.

Ask yourself this, if works can keep you saved at what point might you lose your salvation?

Remember the historic context here. Paul is speaking about the works of the Torah, the Jewish halacha or laws, to a primarily Jewish audience. These laws are divided into 613 mitzvot or commands. How many of these laws can one break without loving salvation? One? Ten? And for how long can one continue in the violation, when does our failure to repent become terminal?

Because remember, the author of the Letter to the Hebrews said that if it WERE possible to lose salvation one who lost it would never be able to be "resaved."

Hebrews 6:1  Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
6:2  Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
6:3  And this will we do, if God permit.
6:4  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
6:5  And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6:6  If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

IF a saved person were to lose salvation he/she would be eternally lost! Such a person could never successfully repent, never receive forgiveness, never again be saved no matter what they did because salvation is a gift of God and here we find that once given and lost (were that possible) it would never be possible to give it a second time! Imagine such torment! Knowing one was saved, wanted to be saved again, and never being able to receive it!!!

No, ONCE we have been adopted into the family of God we are eternally secure.

Ephesians 2:10  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It can be assumed that one who has been saved will do good works, even though he/she will fall short of God's righteous desires for us.

Again going back to James:

James 2:18  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
2:19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
2:20  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
2:21  Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
2:22  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
2:23  And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
2:24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

IF one has the faith one will manifest evidence in some way because real faith moves us to act. But understand that we all have unique gifts and fruit and personal foibles and so we can not judge another.

James is not talking about losing ones salvation but about "the fruit of the Spirit." Salvation is our only eternal security. Everything else can be taken from us, our health, our possessions, our family... our very lives... but our salvation, once granted, is secure because of the work of our high priest, Jesus.  Working that salvation out or manifesting it in our lives as God's workmanship is our responsibility, our "reasonable service" (Romans 12:1) to God, not done to be or stay saved. These works are performed, these fruit of the Spirit manifest in our lives, because we are saved.

Our salvation is absolutely secure because we have been grafted in to the family of God:

Romans 11:29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Or as the Complete Jewish Bible has it:

Romans 11:29  for God's free gifts and his calling are irrevocable.

Salvation is God's free gift and it is irrevocable.

Hope this helps,
   
John of AllFaith