Baptists/Bush and Christians
Expert: John of AllFaith - 4/7/2007
QuestionPastor, thank you so much for this oppurtunity.
I hold a degree in biz adm. from a state university system, 30 years old, single. I've had a medical condition since childhood-love Jesus, highly confused about the Bible, and than some-specifically-the variations I see between the Old and New Testaments.
2 basic questions here-
#1)Why does a Christian absolutely have to endorse the Republican party and the Bush administration, even though this current outfit has told more whoppers than Clinton ever did?
Is that Christianity? To profess allegiance to God, yet to be so stubborn in his/her motive that the individual need not care about professing the truth in order to get to where they need to be?
Sure, Clinton lied about his sex fiascal, and it was a disgrace. But is Bush any more justified in telling lies about a cause that leads to the death of thousands for something that he believes in, just because he believes in that cause while Clinton does not?
I hate abortion every bit as much as you do, but I also believe that corporate America could be doing a lot more for the poor than you do, that is, if you adhere to sound conservative/political/religious doctrine. And at the end of the day, I don't have the guilt of selling innocent Christians astray on moralism.
#2)Ok-The God of the OT spends 2000 years hounding sound laws/doctrines into the minds of His people, the Israelites-killing them along the way for breaking His law, and in other scenarios, for standing against Him even though in several such cases women and children didn't know any such difference (Numbers 31, for example).
In the law of Moses, a certain gentleman is stoned to death for having gathered sticks from his own yard on the Sabbath; by the time we reach Isaiah, however (58), leniancy is granted for doing good works on the Sabbath (While Isaiah 58:13 continues to demand adherance to a pattern of no work on the Sabbath, Isaiah 58 1-12 allows leniancy for Jesus' own teachings of gathering food for the hungry on the Sabbath).
Alright, so at that point, if one even "Dares" read between the lines at the risk of sudden death by an immediate lightning bolt to the joggin' for having daring to confront God in the least bit form out of neccessity for having engaged in act of a good deed on the Sabbath, one might dare light the lamp in the house in order to go out to the field to pick some grain for a starving child without penalty of death by God for having so much as moved a limb on the Sabbath.
But at that point in the argument, why, tell me, is it the least bit sane to have at one point set down a particular set of 316 of the most detailed, complex set of laws and ordinances, those of which no human being could ever achieve, many of which demanded either stonings or setting certain individuals on fire on a stake-this if you were to one day send forth your own Son to effectively negate such mentality and rather therefore establish a mentality of "Love God and your neighbor as much as yourself?"
400-500 years before Jesus' arrival, God is still visciously seen discipling the Israelites for not having followed "All" of His own laws, decrees, and statutes, even so much as voicing displeasure over illegitimite children (Check out the minor prophets).
Suddenly, however, upon the arrival of Christ, we are to embrace all children alike (Which I most certainly agree with), and we are to forgive certain women for having once engaged in the same acts that once demanded stoning to death (Mary Magdalene).
As much as one identifies with Christ and His message of perfect love, just imagine if you had walked the earth upon His arrival and had been orchestrated to adhere to a mindset of absolute intolerance (And death) for sinners.
There isn't a word spoken by Jesus that I disagree with-it is the perfect example of love, a message that no other could ever reproduce. According to God's own standards, however, and the message of which that would have clearly been driven into the minds of those practicing Judaism of the day, however, I too probably would have been tempted to cast a stone on the Blessed back of Jesus back in the day-certainly not out of what my heart told me, but by the viscious nature enacted over a 2000 year period by the God of Israel.
Jesus is my savior, that goes without saying, and we as Christians are told that He stands between His followers and God. But tell me, is He standing between us and a Schizophrenic, out of control God that's nothing short of a madman lunatic (For those that have ever read the OT in any detail), or did Jesus come representing a God that was altogether different from the one represented by the OT?
Thank you so much, Kevin
AnswerHi Kevin,
You seem to be making inaccurate assumptions about what I believe based on my being an "expert" in this category. I might remind you that Dr. King was a Baptist minister, as is Jesse Jackson, Jimmy Carter and others to the left of the political spectrum. Prior to the current treason of Nancy Palosi and the Democratic Party (re their refusal to impeach Bush and Cheney and end the war), I was a Democrat. I'm now registered as an independent.
Christianity, including Baptists, is a very diverse religion and Christians differ on many many points. This is defiantly one such issue.
In my opinion, Bush is demon; figuratively if not literally.
In my opinion, Clinton was the 3rd worse president in modern US History. Jr. is the worse, Daddy Bush was second, Reagan fourth, Nixon 5th and so on.
One would be hard pressed to find anything Christian about Dubya in my opinion. And even with abortion, what has Bush done to stop it? Nothing.
Corporate America is destructive and out of control in my opinion. It sounds as though we agree on these points.
As for your second question...
According to Paul, the history of God's dealings with the Jewish people is to be viewed as our school master. Through the Tanack ("Old Testament") we can learn many things. We see God's faithfulness and His demand for loyalty. We learn about God's holiness and come to realize that in our own flesh we can never be good enough to earn salvation. Salvation comes solely by God's unmerited Grace. We also see in people like David that even though we fail, God will still forgive and use us.
Throughout the Tanack, God's hand is evident leading His people onward toward the revelation of the Messiah. These leadings all worked together for one primary purpose, to lead the way to Jesus. His birth was foretold and had to fit many detailed requirements. For this reason, it was essential that the family lineage of Jesus be kept pure.
Consider also that Israel frequently sinned against God. For instance, had Abraham and Sarah had faith in God's promise, Abraham would never have slept with Hagar and the descendants of Ishmael would never have posed the many problems the Hebrews confronted from them. A large percentage of the harsh accounts recorded by the Tanack occurred between the descendants of Ishmael and those of Isaac. People Israel was frequently was out of God's will according to the Tanack, and God sought to reign them in and handle the results of their errors. Jesus frequently spoke of this topic ('You have heard it said, but I say...').
One must also consider that the nature of the ancient world was harsh. Read the Code of Hammurabi etc. I don't think its fair to condemn the God of Israel who lead His people and through them brought forth the Messiah you love.
Even as grade school children are given clear cut rules they must abide by whereas university students have few limitations, in the same way, Jesus and the Christians are the mature fruit of God's dealings with humanity. For instance, Jews had to give 10% of their income to God, Christians are to give 100%. Jews are to carefully avoid all contact with idols while Christians are told by Paul that an idol is nothing and so as long as one doesn't eat sacrificed food as religious offerings, they may eat without fear.
Further, while we learn in the Book of Hebrews that Abraham and others were justified in God's sight not by their works but by their faith (Micah 6 says the same thing), now that Jesus has come, this is understood more fully, and so whereas in those, "...times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commands all men every where to repent"... from the Tanack we can learn many vital truths.
Simply stated, "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
Under the Law humans were spiritual children, but under Grace we have become adults.
Hope this helps, please write back any time,
~May God bless,
~Pastor John