Baptists/Doctrine Inquiry

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Rating(1-10)	Knowledgeability = 9	Clarity of Response = 10	Politeness = 10
Comment	Dear Brother Gourley: Thank you very much for your timely response. The content thereof reflects my own experience of conversations with Protestants, as well as watching Sunday morning programming in the ’70s and ’80s, as well as my own Protestant upbringing in which all the ministers agreed that Jesus of Nazareth was/is the Son of God, but that the interpretation ranged from Him being a divinely inspired good man to being God Incarnate. I remember reading about the Priesthood of Believers in the last five years, which appears to be common among all evangelical Christians. I also remember reading at the same time that Baptists do not believe in creeds (if I remember correctly), and that they do not consider themselves Protestant (unless I am confusing that position with claims by Seventh-day Adventists). Although you did not offer your own insights on the subject as a couple of other Baptist experts did, I realize that my wording of the question was an inquiry regarding the official or majority belief, and you have answered it in the only way possible, which I should have already realized from my own previous reading. The one common answer I received from the other Baptist experts is that three days was necessary to prove according to Jewish traditions that the Savior was in fact dead, which is something that never really occurred to me before but which definitely makes sense. You’ve indicated, though, that there is a variety of other beliefs regarding the three-day necessity. Similarly, the other experts seemed to concur that Jesus actually returned to Heavenly Father during that time, even before answering Mary in the Garden in a way that seems contrary to that claim. This is an explanation that I have never heard or read before, but at least one that is interesting, despite being contrary to my own beliefs. Not wanting to burden you, I’ll quote my response to one of the first expert’s replies, which you can feel free to ignore if you are too busy to scan it. I didn’t mention in that text my own explanation of how the Jews counted time or days two millennia ago, which would account for the English translation of "three days," but which you are probably familiar with already. EXCERPT OF MY RESPONSE TO ANOTHER REPLY: I was fascinated to discover that the source of the teachings to which I referred actually originated in part from rabbinical sources, as you explained. Although I disagree with the supposition that Christ returned to Heavenly Father’s presence before His resurrection (as evidenced in your reference to His reply to Mary) the interpretation that He first went to our Father in His purely spiritual form, then returned to earth for the resurrection, and finally ascended again for the first time in bodily form is a very interesting theory. I am aware of the different meanings of hell, and it is unfortunate that the English biblical translations substituted a single word to refer to all of them, except to the degree that they are probably united by the condition of being separated from Heavenly Father. I disagree also with the common Protestant belief that the “saved� go directly to Heaven. I believe that all spirits go to the spirit world, which is separated into a spirit prison (hell) and a spirit paradise, and it was to this paradise that Christ went after “giving up the ghost� and where He would have been joined by Barnabas or whichever thief on a neighboring cross to whom the Savior spoke in his final hours. I believe that this is where we await our own resurrection that will begin for the just/righteous with what Protestants refer to as the Rapture at the glorious Second Coming of Christ, which will begin the Millennium, and will then be followed near the end of the Millennium by the resurrection of the wicked, at which time Satan will be loosed from his Millennium-long bondage. I believe that after the ensuing spiritual war, the earth will be changed to the shining sphere (Heaven), which the saved will inherit, while others will receive a different inheritance (not this earth), which will be another form of hell, and Satan will be cast into Outer Darkness along with a handful of people who committed the unpardonable sin of denying the Holy Ghost. Anyway, I believe that Christ organized the Church in spirit paradise, and that these spirits (which would include Adam and prophets like Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc., and righteous saints from every generation) would have been sent to minister to the spirits in spirit prison, where Christ would not go personally. As we know, though, after Christ’s resurrection, the New Testament says that many others came forth from the grave and showed their resurrected bodies during the Savior’s post-resurrection lingering with the apostles and other disciples. I would assume that prophets would have been among those who were resurrected at that time, though this is pure unscriptural supposition. I just can’t imagine less righteous saints being resurrected after Christ before some of the great prophets. As for Enoch and Elijah, my denomination believes that they were translated (along with the entire righteous city of Enoch) rather than resurrected. In other words, their mortal bodies of flesh and blood were altered in such a way that they could not taste death or pain, and that their bodies will be changed to glorified bodies of flesh and bone in the twinkling of an eye without them ever tasting actual death. Naturally, anyone who is either translated or resurrected cannot enter the spirit world that contains the countless trillions of spirits who have died since the time of Adam and are awaiting their own Millennial resurrection, so I assume (again as supposition rather than having biblical support) that they all now dwell with our Heavenly Father. Just as there is more than one place or condition for what we refer to as hell, and is indicated in different Greek words in the original text, there is more than one heaven (where God is now [both Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ], and the earth that the meek and righteous will inherit when it is changed into a shining sphere, as well as others that are unique to my own denomination). I agree with you, as any Christian I hope would, that no one gets a second chance for salvation, but that of course does not necessarily mean “There is no chance of salvation after death� as you worded your response. Clearly, in Heavenly Father’s perfect justice, mercy, love, etc., He has provided a way for those who lived before Christ or who now live in parts of India, Africa, China, etc., and will die without ever hearing about Christ to be given a chance to hear of and accept Christ, and to also receive (in their case, by proxy) the baptism of immersion for the remission of sins that is necessary for salvation, since we all must be born of water and of the Spirit. This last sentence, of course, clearly gives away which denomination I converted to in university. Anyway, I was hoping to learn the official position of every Christian denomination on basic doctrine as preparation for a comparative doctrinal book that I hope could be published, but as you and all Baptists indicate, this is impossible. I realize, as I always have, that all the denominations without a central administrative body have very little unity of beliefs. While I was raised in Canada’s largest Protestant church, I noticed that all the liberal ministers and Sunday School teachers taught widely disparate teachings, ranging from Jesus being an inspired righteous man to Him being God Incarnate—and this is a church that actually has a central governing body and creed. I admire the U.S., as roughly half of the population attends church regularly, while only a quarter of Canadians do, although partly due to the fact that one-third of the population is French-speaking Catholics, who traditionally do not attend mass, as is true of Europe. I must also admit that I have been aware for at least the last three years that Baptists (or at least some) do not consider themselves to be Protestants, which is quite interesting, even though they fit the standard definition. Jehovah’s Witnesses apparently don’t, either, but I use the term Protestant-protestants, which seems to be accurate. My own denomination of course is not Protestant, because we are a restoration of the gospel rather than a product of the reformation that descented from the Catholic Church. Anyway, I naturally am not marking you according to your degree of harmony with my own beliefs but rather how informative you were on the majority belief of the main Baptist organizations’ members, and your answer has been informative. I will now visit your Web site. I hope you can also visit mine and offer some suggestions of improvements I can make. I’d like to ask as many as the questions at the bottom of my Web site of the various AllExperts experts. I do have some follow-up questions regarding your answers below, but I will submit them by the appropriate button rather than herein. Oh, you were also helpful in indicating as two or three other Baptist experts did that three days was necessary to prove that Jesus was actually dead, according to Jewish traditions. My Web site (one of them) is http://members.truepath.com/KenWedin/churches.html END OF EXCERPT Thank you again, very much, and I hope you won’t mind me asking further doctrinal questions in the future. I certainly do not want to abuse anyone’s goodwill by monopolizing their time. Sincerely, Ken



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Bruce Gourley

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Anything about the Baptist denomination.

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Professional Baptist Experience:
Executive Director, The Baptist History & Heritage Society (currently); Interim Director, the Center for Baptist Studies of Mercer University (2004-2009); Baptist History Professor, Yellowstone Baptist College (1995-2002); Associate Editor, Baptists Today (currently); published author


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Go to http://www.brucegourley.com/ to see books published

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PhD, History, Auburn University MDIV, Theology, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary BA, English, Christianity, Mercer University

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