Expert: Pastor Don Carpenter - 4/6/2006

Question
When I first found out I struggled with it.I did feel HONEST , true, HOLY spirit conviction.I prayed and it SEEMED to go away for a while.Then I started haveing HOMOSEXual feelings angain.I went a while and FELT conviction again.I prayed and it went away..This keept REpeating.Till I just said "IM GAY" IM ATTRATED TO MEN AND MEN ONLY...

NO I have never slept with a man..or even a woman.
BUT I believe that THINKING is doing...That may not be biblical...except for the ADULTRY AT HEART is the only thing I can think of that MAY BACK up that belief of "THINKING IS DOING"...

I ((KNOW)) Ive been TRUELY SAVED.. Every time I LIE , OR COME CLOSE TO FEELING HATE, or any sin.I FEEL GREAT GUILT..AND IF I DONT REPENT OF THE SIN I FEEL HORRIBLE AND GUILTY till I DO repent..THEN I FEEL MUCH BETTER.




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Followup To
Question -
I have been saved for 6 years.4 Years ago I accepted I was gay.I had known for a long time but I never accepted that I was gay.I knew and still be know that im saved.God knew me heart before I accepted I was gay.How can you be saved one minute and the next be told that You are not and never were saved.LOL I hope IM makeing sence.I'm a missionary Baptist.I believe in Once you've accepted Christ your going to heaven.Im totally confussed why people say you can lose your salvation.

Another thing I dont get is, HOw can people say youve been saved and you cant lose it.But when it comes to being saved then realising or accepting your gay, UR HELLBOUND.

Would you PLZ give me ur opionion and/or some Biblical evidence that one can be saved one minuate then be gay and lose that salvation.


YOUR BROTHER IN CHRIST
REV.Richard V Dotson
Answer -
Dear Rev. Dotson,

Thank you so much for this very provocative question! There are many facest that we could explore here, and I am afraid that neither of us has the time to deal extensively with this issue.

First of all let me agree with you that if one is truely saved... then he is saved forever.  You were not saved because of anything you did, and you will not stay saved because of anything you do or don't do.

Galatians 3:1-3

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

The next issue that we must address is what exactly you mean that you are gay?  Do you mean that you are attracted to people of the same sex, or that your have sexual realtions with people of the same sex?  If it is merely an attraction... that is a fleshly desire that happens to be perverted and twisted.... but if you resist that temptation and remain celebate... then you are fighting the flesh like any other saved person does.  Even the Apostle Paul faught with his flesh.

Romans 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.  16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?  25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

The problem is it seems by your post that you do not view homosexuality as a sin.  Perhaps I am wrong.  If you see it is a sin...and fight it ... then there is evidence that you really are saved, because the Holy Spirit convicts you of that sin...like he convicts heterosexual people about any impurities outside of marriage.  If however you feel no conviction, no guilt, but rather a sense of pride and liberation as you publically declare your perversion, then there is no evidence that you have the Holy SPirit.

Leviticus 18:22
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Romans 1:26-27
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

I do not believe that you can lose your salvation for committing the sin of homosexual relations...but I do not believe that you can continue in ANY sin habbitually without guilt or remorse and be truely saved in the first place.

God's Word tells us that if we are saved there is a war going on between the Spirit and the flesh.  THe only way that war can rage against our natural flesh is if the Spirit is there.... and the only way the Spirit would be there is if we are truely saved.

Galatians 5:17
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

I am sorry for my many words, but you have asked a very powerful question and I want to handle it the best way I can.  I do not know your personal struggle...so I cannot offer my oppinion as to if I think you are saved or not( nor is it really any of my business...it is between you and God.)  If you are bothered by your homosexuality down the the core of your being...if that sin tears you apart inside... then I think that there is evidence that you are saved...if not... then there is not evidence of saving faith that produces a changed life.  Remember the definition of faith given in Hebrews:

Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Saving faith produces substance and evidence of those things that cannot be seen...that evidence is a change of behavior.  I will leave you with one more passage that articulates the change that takes place upon salvation:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

I hope that this helps you.

In Christ,
Pastor Don

Answer
Dear Rev. Dotson,

It sounds to me that you are saved.  You seem to be convicted about your homosexual thoughts.  Some men struggle with impure heterosexual thoughts, you struggle with impure homosexual thoughts.  Here is the key: you donot have to be enslaved by them!  Don't ever forget that they are sin!  If you give in one inch to indulging those thoughts either by pornography or committing the act of sodomy... you will become deeply enslaved by that sin.

John 8:34
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,  Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Now your fight is to have a clean mind.  Fleshly lusts are warring against your very soul and you must use the tools GOd gave you to win that fight.

1 Peter 2:11
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

2 Corinthians 10:4-5
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)  5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;  
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

Don't get tired of confessing sin!  Everytimme that you confess the sin of homosexual fantasy, you are cleansed and get another chance to start again!  This is the struggle we face this side of heaven.  

I guess the one thing I want to beg of you is that you do not give up your fight against the flesh!  You do not have to do this.  This is a carnal passion that does not need to be fulfilled.  I also believe that if you fight it and don't feed it, it will become much weaker as an enticement in your life.  God sent Jesus to free you from the slavery of sin, including that one!

Romans 6:1-2


What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

I hope that this helps.

In Christ
Pastor Don