Expert: Pastor Don Carpenter - 10/4/2007

Question
QUESTION: Hi Pastor Don, in you post about the church tithing you started at Malachi 3:8-12, whay didnt you start at verse 6 where it tell who Malachi was addressing.

verse 6: For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye ''sons of Jacob'' are not consumed.

Jimmy

ANSWER: Hi Jimmy,

THanks for this question.  There are a lot of different opinions about this matter of tithing.  Yes, Malachi like all the other OT prophetic books are specifically written to the People of Israel and Judah.  This does not mean that there cannot be some doctrine for us to learn and obey.

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.

We know that Abraham tithed and so did Jacob.  This is centuries before the law.  Tithing then is transdispensational.  

I understand that many good men disagree.  That is ok... you follow the scriptures as you read them under the leadership of your pastor.

I hope that this helps you.

In Christ
Pastor Don

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Pastor Don,

Question: Are you aware from basic bible hermeneutics in reading a Bible passage you must ask, "Am I in the group of people being spoken to here?" That is, "Is this passage speaking to Christians?" Most commonly, we are taught that the entire Bible is written to us. But that is not entirely correct. The whole Bible is written for us, for our learning, but not all of it is addressed to us.

You have violated some of the most basic bible study rules with are:

1. Sculpture will never contradict scripture.
2. Some truths may seem paradoxical.
3. Never use an obscure passage to contradict the clear teaching of scripture.
4. Always seek the full counsel of the Word of God.
5. Clear passages always preferred over obscure.
6. Greater weight to teaching that is repeated.
7. Later revelation takes place over earlier revelation,
8. Do not make a doctrine on what is inferred.
9. Do not dwell on church traditions.
10 Do not build doctrine on extra Biblical interpretation.

The Case of Abraham
Now let’s look closely at the single instance in which Abraham is said to have tithed. It is found in Genesis 14. The story picks up at the end of a successful military campaign in which Abraham and his men had rescued his nephew Lot and other family members from an enemy. Abraham had also plundered those who had committed the crime of kidnapping. When the campaign was over, "…he brought back all the goods…" (Genesis 14:16).

Melchizedek, king of Salem (later Jerusalem), threw a bread and wine party for Abraham and his men. This man was a priest (Cohen) of God. The priest then pronounced a blessing on Abraham (Genesis 14:19-20). In response, Abraham "gave him a tithe of all" (Genesis 14:20). This tithe (tenth) of the spoil was not a response to a law that was then in force. It was, as Dr. J.H. Hertz points out, merely a "thanksgiving offering" in recognition of the fact that Melchizedek was priest of the Most High God and it was God that had given him the victory.

Abraham’s act of tithing was entirely voluntary on his part, not obligatory.

Jacob’s Tithe
Abraham’s grandson, Jacob, is also recorded as having offered God a tenth. The account is found in Genesis 28.

In the course of a journey, Jacob had made camp for the night. He used a stone for a pillow – upon which he probably placed a folded blanket – and fell asleep. As he slept, he dreamed. It was the now famous dream of "Jacob’s ladder" (Genesis 28:12 ff.).

In the morning, Jacob awoke and realized that the dream had been of supernatural origin. He had experienced a visitation from God. To commemorate the event, Jacob turned the stone he’d slept on, on its end, and then anointed it with oil. He named the location "House of God" – Bethel. Then Jacob made a vow:

"If God will be with me, and keep me in the this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You" (Genesis 28:20-22).

Jacob, like his grandfather, was not acting in obedience to a law of tithing that was "on the books." Rather, his vow to tithe was part of an "if-then" formula – if God blessed and provided for Jacob, Jacob would then return a tenth of God’s provision to God. It was ''conditional.'' Incidentally, this is the first instance of a vow recorded in the Bible.

Conclusions
While voluntary tithing in the manner of Abraham and Jacob was an appropriate and thankful response to God’s blessing and provision, there is no reason to assume on the basis of these verses that there was in force a tithing law prior to Moses’ time.

Nor do these verses impose any obligation upon modern Christians to tithe to the Church. From the time of these two incidents, several centuries pass before tithing is again mentioned in Scripture. When it is, it is in the context of establishing the Aaronic priesthood and the Tabernacle service.

Kind regards,

Jimmy Hanratty


Dear Pastor Don,

Question: Are you aware from basic bible hermeneutics in reading a Bible passage you must ask, "Am I in the group of people being spoken to here?" That is, "Is this passage speaking to Christians?" Most commonly, we are taught that the entire Bible is written to us. But that is not entirely correct. The whole Bible is written for us, for our learning, but not all of it is addressed to us.

You have violated some of the most basic bible study rules with are:

1. Sculpture will never contradict scripture.
2. Some truths may seem paradoxical.
3. Never use an obscure passage to contradict the clear teaching of scripture.
4. Always seek the full counsel of the Word of God.
5. Clear passages always preferred over obscure.
6. Greater weight to teaching that is repeated.
7. Later revelation takes place over earlier revelation,
8. Do not make a doctrine on what is inferred.
9. Do not dwell on church traditions.
10 Do not build doctrine on extra Biblical interpretation.

The Case of Abraham
Now let’s look closely at the single instance in which Abraham is said to have tithed. It is found in Genesis 14. The story picks up at the end of a successful military campaign in which Abraham and his men had rescued his nephew Lot and other family members from an enemy. Abraham had also plundered those who had committed the crime of kidnapping. When the campaign was over, "…he brought back all the goods…" (Genesis 14:16).

Melchizedek, king of Salem (later Jerusalem), threw a bread and wine party for Abraham and his men. This man was a priest (Cohen) of God. The priest then pronounced a blessing on Abraham (Genesis 14:19-20). In response, Abraham "gave him a tithe of all" (Genesis 14:20). This tithe (tenth) of the spoil was not a response to a law that was then in force. It was, as Dr. J.H. Hertz points out, merely a "thanksgiving offering" in recognition of the fact that Melchizedek was priest of the Most High God and it was God that had given him the victory.

Abraham’s act of tithing was entirely voluntary on his part, not obligatory.

Jacob’s Tithe Analyzed
Abraham’s grandson, Jacob, is also recorded as having offered God a tenth. The account is found in Genesis 28.

In the course of a journey, Jacob had made camp for the night. He used a stone for a pillow – upon which he probably placed a folded blanket – and fell asleep. As he slept, he dreamed. It was the now famous dream of "Jacob’s ladder" (Genesis 28:12 ff.).

In the morning, Jacob awoke and realized that the dream had been of supernatural origin. He had experienced a visitation from God. To commemorate the event, Jacob turned the stone he’d slept on, on its end, and then anointed it with oil. He named the location "House of God" – Bethel. Then Jacob made a vow:

"If God will be with me, and keep me in the this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, so that I come back to my father’s house in peace, then the Lord shall be my God. And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God’s house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You" (Genesis 28:20-22).

Jacob, like his grandfather, was not acting in obedience to a law of tithing that was "on the books." Rather, his vow to tithe was part of an "if-then" formula – if God blessed and provided for Jacob, Jacob would then return a tenth of God’s provision to God. It was ''conditional.'' Incidentally, this is the first instance of a vow recorded in the Bible.

Conclusions
While voluntary tithing in the manner of Abraham and Jacob was an appropriate and thankful response to God’s blessing and provision, there is no reason to assume on the basis of these verses that there was in force a tithing law prior to Moses’ time.

Nor do these verses impose any obligation upon modern Christians to tithe to the Church. From the time of these two incidents, several centuries pass before tithing is again mentioned in Scripture. When it is, it is in the context of establishing the Aaronic priesthood and the Tabernacle service.

Kind regards,

Jimmy Hanratty  

Answer
Hi Jimmy,

Thank you for your insight.  I understand that not everyone will agree that tithing is for today.  I do not see any verses that show that tithing has passed away.  There are verses that tell us that the diet, ceremony, and Sabbath has passed, but not the tithe.  Colossians 2:14-16.

I do not wish to argue, you seem to be fully persuaded.  God bless you as you seek to serve Him.

In Christ,
Pastor Don