Baptists/Baptist church vs. catholic church
*Genevieve wrote at 2007-11-29 08:51:13
I am a Catholic married to a Baptist.
With all due respect to the Rev, all I can say to you is, take everything he has written and sit down with a Priest and see what he has to say.
Catholics are the experts on Catholicism. I am tired of reading and facing Baptist "takes" on Catholicism, Orthodoxy -and other Protestant faiths too. The complete lack of respect for the older churches, particularly in the US is disgusting.
Do not forget that it was these older religions who originally got the word out, from early unorganised Christianity. It was through those who organised, who suffered and were martyrd for their beliefs, we have the right to worship. Do not forget that- ever (are you reading this Rev?).
Do not forget that Catholics are as individual as any other believers, and it is a living church.
I contend that Protestants are as ritualistic as Catholics, and that many services (even if they deny it) have elements of the Catholic Mass. The Protestant hierachies are very skilled at exercising the guilt factor, if not more.. and also that they excercise just as much control over their congregations -if not more.
There is no where in the bible that says Baptists have the answer, no Book, Chapter or Verse says OK, you got it -Nor does it say the Catholics or anyone else does.
How sad must Jesus be to see us being lead to hate other denominations, all of who believe in Jesus as the risen Lord -or as Baptists put it "Our personal Lord and Saviour" - by your own Leaders?
Reverend, wake up to yourself. Be careful you don't start worshipping your denomination as an idol. You don't have all the answers, Jesus does. Take a good hard look at yourself and be very wary of pride, be wary of the vaccuum of spiritual arrogance. Y
ou are in a position of power and with that comes the burden of responsibility. Go and speak to a priest and ask him point for point the reasons why they do things, and you will see it comes from different interpretations of the bible. Who's right? I don't know but hey, give me a break and stop judging Catholics until you not only hear, but listen to what the reasoning is.
So Leigh, ask Jesus and he will light a path for you. Know that with all your heart. I'm not asking you to go one way or the other, just that you should take what you read with a grain of salt.
Good luck and God bless
Anaas wrote at 2008-01-20 22:02:39
I suggest you take a leap of faith and contact a better expert, talk to a Catholic priest. As a non-Catholic you can be married in a Catholic church without becoming Catholic yourself, your boyfriend Brian however, will not be able to get married outside of a Catholic ceremony. As a Catholic he would be living in sin and not seen as living in a blessed marriage if he was to do as you ask. This is a grave matter. It might be possible for Brian to receive a dispensation thereby allowing him to marry you in a non church setting but you must contact a Catholic priest or the diocesan office to find out more information.
Now on to the statements of the expert..
Sadly in this case the expert has terribly mis-represented Catholicism and so much so he has further confused the Leigh as to what to believe.
1. Catholics do not give Godly worship to Mary. Long before the Baptist denomination came into existence Catholicism was already teaching worship of God alone. It would be heresy of the highest order for a Catholic to give Mary Godly worship.
2. The Christian bible is a Catholic book. To argue of the importance of biblical text would not be a dividing factor between Baptist and Catholic.
3. Catholicism does teach in apostolic succession, as did St. Paul and Timothy and all the those who learned Christianity at the feet of Christ and the Apostles. I suggest reading what is called the Early Church Fathers to get a good view of the Christian Church during the first, second and third centuries of Christianity. Although the Baptist community does not use the title pope for any elder/teacher of the Church the function of each local pastor and of course the council of elders of the Southern Baptist denomination operate very much like the papal office. In reality Catholic as one pope at a time and Baptists have millions of popes at any given time. Jesus instructed obedience to religious teachers and St. Paul indicates in scripture he begets us (his is our spiritual father) because of the gospel of Christ he preaches.
4. Catholicism doesn't teach one receives grace from good works. Catholicism teaches that good works are done in the grace already received from God, Eph2:10.
5. The Catholic Church does not teach all sex is a sin this comment by the expert is so obtuse I'm unsure as from where he has received instruction on the faith. Catholicism teaches sex between man and woman is to reserved to spouses of a committed and blessed martial union. Yes, sex outside of marriage is sinful.
6. regarding the PROCESS of salvation I suggest visiting catholic.com and review the article entitled, "Assurance of Salvation?"
"Are you saved?" asks the Fundamentalist. The Catholic should reply: "As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)."
glen wrote at 2008-03-22 03:19:05
Dear Rev. Woods
I am Catholic Catechist and I would like to answer the errors to your answers,with sacred scripture and reason.
In answer to #1 Christ founded His Church upon Peter and is successors. Up until 1054 A.D. if my math is correct a 1000 year reign, certain Catholic Bishops renounced the Primacy of the Pope and left the Church,but there is still only one Church. Look into the history of the orthodox movement after 1054 A.D. and see how fast they declined.
In 1517 A.D Martin Luther also left the Church,the same One,Holy,Catholic,and Apostolic Church as the Catholics in 1054 A.D.left so there is still only one Church. Neither had authority from Christ to create a church or make policy. How many denominations are there today with a human name on them , Martin Luther,John Smith,John Wesley,Henry VIII,Rick Warren Etc.
I believe in the Bible and there is only one Church Christ founded and that is the one the orthodox and Luther chose to leave. There are 1.3 billion Catholics and more coming than going despite the media hype the Church is dying. Christ said in John 14:15-31 the world would not see him, I'm happy to report since becoming Catholic I see Christ in the flesh (John 6:40)every time the priest holds up Body of Christ the only true sign of Unity.
Reason would show why Protestant denial of the Real Presence would result in their disunity and factions.Why is the Catholic Church the largest Religion in the world and most unified.
#2 1 Timothy 3:15 states that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. The Catholic Church existed before the New Testament they wrote it and they canonized it in 382 A.D by Pope Damasus.
The Pope is not higher than Bible for both Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition both come from the same divine wellspring, Christ. Careful study would show the Popes and Sacred Scripture have never in 2000 years contradicted each other because the same Holy Spirit breathed on the Apostles insures infallibility (in teaching faith and morals only ) in the Successor of Peter, and inerrancy in Sacred Scripture
Mary is the Mother of God and the Pope and Sacred Scripture does not differ in regards to this. Luke 1:43 clearly states this.
One verse in scripture Protestants never refer to is Genesis 3:15 the Protoevangelium. God says he is going to put enmity be the Woman and Satan,
between her seed and his. Enmity means an intense hatred. So why do Protestants have such enmity against Mary and always try to downgrade God's most perfect creation. Christ always refers to his mother as Woman referring always back Gen 3:15. Luke 1:48 say all generations shall call her blessed. Why don't Protestants refer to her as blessed?
Brothers in Hebrew also means cousin. If the Blessed Mother would have had other sons why did Christ give her to the Apostle John to care for instead her sons (John 19:26-28).
#3 If grace is a gift that cannot be earned,why can't children be baptized. They don't have to work for it so why keep the children from being born again Mt.19:13-15.
Newsweeks review of Hitler's Pope, Kenneth Woodward states error and ignorance of context on every page. Jews in Rome during WW II testify in favor of the Pope.
#4 In 1 Tim 2:1 St.Paul tells the Church to offer prayers of all kinds for everyone. Mary interceded for the Bridegroom and the Bride at the Wedding Feast of Cana (John 2:1-11)and Christ responded by making over 120 gallons of wine. Now you know the secret to Catholics great revelry of having Christ present at their weddings in receiving the Body and Blood of our Lord and the receptions after, totally biblical.
Luke 1:38 states that through the Blessed Mother's free will she cooperated with Christ's redemption of man,she could have been disobedient like Eve who was also a virgin when she sinned. But Christ is the New Adam and by her yes to God Mary is the new Eve.
Through her the Word became flesh and died for the forgiveness of sin. All Catholic prayer involving Mary says Pray for us. Prayer to God says have Mercy on us. The difference should explain obvious Catholic understanding of Christ and the Blessed Mother's differing roles as cooperaters in your redemption. Even the ungrateful ones owe Mary a debt of gratitude by her yes to God.
#5 and # 6 In John 3:1-8 Jesus teaches Nicodemus the Sacrament of Baptism and to enter the Church you first have be baptized with Water and in the name of Father,Son,and Holy Spirit.
If you would be so lucky to die immediately after baptism the Catholic Church teachs you get a straight shot to Heaven. Catholics aren't so proud as to think they don't sin after Baptism so Christ instituted confession in His Church
Mt 9:1-8 Mt 10:1-7 Mt 18:18 John 20:19-23.
No salvation outside the Catholic Church is true statement and a biblical one. All graces flow through Christ's Church. We've already discussed Church history, 5 of the seven sacraments require Apostolic successors to perform them. Confirmation,receiving of the Holy Spirit Acts 8:9-25. Eucharist John 6:25-58 Luke 19:14-20 1Cor 10:15-17 John 21:15-17. Baptism,Confirmation and the Eucharist are all required see 1 John:5-12. These are the Rites of Christian Initation that each Catholic receives just like St.Paul did when he became a Catholic (see Acts 9:17-19). It took a Catholic bishop to get Saul into the Church not a so-called born again experience. The Bible is again correct that salvation comes through Christ by his visible body which subsists is the Catholic Church.
# 7 The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines original sin as ,the sin by which the first human beings disobeyed the commandment of God choosing to follow their own rather than God's will.As a consequence they lost the grace of original holiness,and became subject to the law of death:sin became universally present in the world. Besides the personal sin of Adam and Eve, original sin describes the fallen state of human nature which affects every person born into the world,and from which Christ,the "new Adam" came to redeem us.Baptism is the remedy for this. Since we are born with it and the Grace of baptism is a gift that can't be bought why keep children away from Christ.
All sex is not a sin only masturbation and sex outside of marriage. The Church calls it the marital act Gen 3:24 and teachings on masturbation and birth control are derived from
in Gen 38:6-10.
St.Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 12-16 the opposite of your advice the spouse is made holy and the children are brought to baptism,that is why so many join their spouse in Christ's Church to become holy.
Catholics know that Christ is God and that he founded a true visible Church that the gates of hell will never prevail against. In A.D 110 St. Ignatious bishop of antioch proclaimed whereever Christ is there the Catholic Church.
So question "ex-catholics" and most have never truly learned the faith and have become John 6:66ers Like Judas,the only one to leave the Last Supper early and go out into the darkness. Luther and other Ex-Catholic bishops.
Casey wrote at 2008-09-28 12:19:32
I am dismayed to read the answer by the person who totally distorted the Catholic truth. I don't believe that either person is ready to marry because both individuals do not understand what is requied from GOD of both individuals. The respondent should be ashamed to have used this section to meline the Catholic doctrine. He/she would have been better served to not respond at all. The point being that both individuals are not practicing Christians; and, are not ready to undertake marriage. They should both go back to their churches and learn what is expected from them, by GOD.
rosaryworks wrote at 2009-02-20 17:34:41
The person answering your question, is OBVIOUSLY non-catholic and does not have a full understanding of the faith.
Let me preface myself to let you know that I was raised baptist and converted to catholicism among entering adult-hood.
Yes, there are definately stong differences between the two faiths. The direction I would give you is to set up an appointment with "Brian's" priest and tell him that you have questions about the faith. So you will have direct answers from a leader within the church. (you could even call up and number of Catholic parishes and set up a meeting with any one of them, if you wanted to do it without Brian's knowledge.) I would also talk to your pastor about the issues you are having at hand. Of course, you will (I hope) notice that there will be two completely different answers for you. The priest will answer any and all questions you have about the faith, but not try to corese you to come into the faith unless that is truly what is on your heart. However, your pastor will do and say anything that will keep you in the baptist faith.
Catholics do not think that the only way we can get to Jesus is by praying through dead saints, Mary or a priest! Whoever wrote that is ignorant due to not educating themselves before responding. We do pray to her. She was one of God's chosen. He chose Mary to carry and deliver the Son of God - Jesus - the saviour of the world! What if she had said no? We pray that we can have the faith that Mary had.
Another point is about being "saved." Protestant churches believe that you have to have that "come to Jesus" moment in your life before you are "saved." Catholics believe that Jesus died on the cross to save each and every one of us. We baptize infants to cleanse the soul of original sin which have because of Adam and Eve. Then we are brought up in the faith and upon "confirmation" within the chuch is a notable sacrament that allows us to show the church and the community that we UNDERSTAND our faith and that we will continue to follow the life of Christ.
It sounds like you are adement about staying in your faith and "Brian" is too. Marriage will not work if Christ is not the center of your lives no matter what faith you are.
Julie wrote at 2009-07-05 18:53:12
It has been quite a while since your original post and perhaps this is no longer relevant to you, but I post for you and others that may have this same question.
I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above responders that the Rev., with all due respect, is FAR from an expert on the Catholic church. Im unsure as to why he delved into such detail about that which he doesn't understand when answering your very simple question. I can only surmise that he has a distinct and un-Christian loathing of the Catholic church. This isn't unusual. The wonderful Bishop Fulton Sheen once said, "There are about 100 people in the world that hate the Catholic church and 100 million who hate what they think the Catholic church is".
On to your question. I am a converted Catholic and my husband is a Catholic from birth. I converted on my own many years after our marriage. We were not married in the church. We could have been married in the church with approval had we chosen to. If you are married in the church, then it is expected that you will raise your children Catholic. I might also add, as this became an issue for me when I converted, that if "Brian" decides in the future that he would like to attend church and partake of the Eucharist (communion), and your marriage was not performed in the Catholic church, he will NOT be able to participate until the marriage is blessed (con-validated) by the church. The Catholic church considers marriage a sacrement like baptism or the Eucharist and is NOT taken lightly. Once you are married in the Catholic church if you decide that you no longer want to be married you can not get a civil divorce and be done with it. If "Brian" decided he wanted to get married again he would have to get an annullment from the pope or he would be committing the sin of adultry. I agree with the above responders that you should go and see a priest. They are very kind and understanding, not people to be afraid of. They will answer any questions you have.
And my final comment would be this and I hope that you and any other persons reading this will take it and pray over it earnestly.
The Catholic church was founded by JESUS with St. Peter as it's first Bishop in approx. the year 33. The Baptist church was founded by a MAN named Smythe on his own in approx. the year 1609.
May God bless and keep you Leigh and I truly hope that you find peace with whatever you decide.
Lilly wrote at 2009-10-08 00:37:08
Excuse me, but I beg to differ. You need to truly seek the truth. The Blessed Virgin Mary had no other children and so many of your other comments are incorrect. You should refer to Dr. Scott Hahn (a Theologan and Scholar and previous Protestant Director/Minister), check out his tapes/CD's on Lighthouse Catholic Media site. Please, I beg you, to due your research and God, in the Bible, asks us to continue to seek the truth...Please go to this web site and read this....so many of your comments/questions/statments will be detailed and explained and referenced from the Bible....http://www.protestanterrors.com/#2
Juan wrote at 2009-10-15 22:34:31
Who wrote this is an anti-catholic. This person have no clue to what is a catholic but I start to see that what is baptist. These are selfish people who beliefs that their religion is the only way to heaven. The Catholics have been tested the test of time. We been here for over 2000 years and we are still strong. We have problems but as we grow with God, we get stronger. If we were the evil ones, why do we profess Jesus as our savior. Why do we praise God all the time. You see the Baptist writer is like a little kid on the block trying take down the original and the only true Church.
Shane from Australia wrote at 2010-01-23 23:28:40
Whoever wrote this has a very biased and naive view of Catholicism. The true essence of Catholisim is that one or more times each week we gather around an altar (as is fitting a proper to the greatness of the Lord) and we offer bread and wine to the Lord who turns it into his spiritual Body and Blood and passes it back down to us to eat physically. I and millions of other Catholics are refreshed, renewed, healed and forgiven by this direct contact with our Lord. It is the way the Lord speaks to us personally and yet as a group. Those that believe and experience its true blessing would never turn to anything else. I've been to a Baptist service. Great words, great atmosphere, great people, (almost comical in nature).....BUT no food. It is the reason Jesus controversily said "You cannot have any life in you unless you eat my body and drink my blood".
Johnston Wales wrote at 2010-07-07 23:21:11
The above answer misstates the teachings of the Catholic Church. Specifically, for Catholics, authority rests on three legs: Sacred Scripture, Apostolic Tradition, and the teachings of the Magisterium (i.e. Pope and Bishops). They are never in contradiction. Rather, it provides the framework for scriptural exegesis. For the Baptist, there ultimately is no authority to guide personal interpretation, which leads to divergence and argument concerning the most basic of doctrines. For a Catholic, the Apostolic Tradition (i.e. what have Christians held as true from the times of the Apostles) helps explain the context and meaning of scripture. Without it, any two pastors in the same Baptist denomination could teach radically different dogma, and frequently they do.
Kelly wrote at 2010-10-04 10:36:40
I just wanted to say that you have your facts all wrong about the Catholic church. There are so many things that you stated that are so un true! I feel sorry for you that you feel that one religion Is better than the other that you must make up stories to influence someone to like your religion. The catholic church does not teach that you MUST pray through Mary to get to Jesus and they do not teach that you have to do work to get to heaven. I was raised Catholic and a lot of the things you have said I have never even heard before. But I do know this, I don't think that Jesus would approve of the catholic church bashing either. I understand everyone can have an opinion but if it's going to hurt people then keep it to yourself!
ken wrote at 2010-11-18 18:46:33
how sad- the answer/ advice given lacks facts.
there are many sources of correct information
that should been cited.
Roni wrote at 2012-04-04 15:11:30
I am Catholic and searching for common ground with a Baptist friend, and I read this answer. It made my heart break for you. Please consider asking the very same question you asked Rev. Woods of a Catholic priest. Love is a gift from God and if you and your boyfriend have love for one another I refuse to believe that religion is meant to divide you. Religion, no matter how divinely inspired, is conducted by humans and we are fallible. If you sincerely want to know the beliefs of a particular religion, ask an expert in that religion. Rev. Woods is obviously not an expert on Catholicism, given several false interpretations of Catholic beliefs expressed in his answer. Take his answer about Baptist beliefs and place them side by side with an answer from a priest, and then the decision will be between you and your boyfriend and God.
CatholicChick wrote at 2012-10-20 19:05:43
I know this is an old post but I came across it and read the response to Leigh's question. Obviously, it was written by someone who is clearly not Catholic. Most of this answer is completely fabricated in some areas.
"Mary Worship - the Catholic Church also teaches that you must go through a priest, a dead saint, or Mary to pray to God. Jesus told us to pray directly to the Father in His name, not go through someone who cannot hear you. There are now elements within the Catholic church that even believe that Mary is the co-redempter with Jesus Himself. In other words, they believe you can be saved through Mary just like you are saved through Jesus."
This is just one example. Catholics do not worship Mary and we do pray to God directly. Haven't you ever asked a friend or relative to pray for you? It's the same concept. We believe we can ask all God's saints, including Mary to pray for us to the Lord. Just the same we can pray to Him as well. There are many other errors with this response but that is the most glaring one. I hope anyone else who reads this will understand that the Catholic Church does not worship Mary, statues, or saints and that the Pope does not remove portions of the Bible to suit his doctrine. For example, the Bible does mention sons of Mary but it is translated from a Greek word that means brothers or cousins.
I just wanted to point some of these things out. Sources: I converted to Catholicism from Protestantism.
Thomas wrote at 2013-02-21 06:02:35
Sadly the author of this article seems to ignore the Commandment which prohibits bearing false witness. Like many of his ilk who have been taught imaginary fiction regarding Catholic Dogmatic and Moral teaching, which is handed to us by the Apostles as taught to them by Christ Jesus, and handed on or to use the Latin term for handed on (Traditio) to the Early Church before any word of the New Testament was written. As the late Archbishop Sheen often said, in the U.S. there are a handful of people who hate what the Catholic Church teaches and millions who hate what they (erroneously) think it teaches.
If any of the distorted lies written about Catholic teachings about grace, indulgences, paying or praying someone out of hell etc were true, then he would have a case, but the blatant distortion of the truth posed here has been passed on by those ignorant of the truth time and time again. Here we see it again;.