Expert: Rev. Robert Woods - 11/12/2003

Question
Hi Reverend Woods,

I have a few more questions and comments for you.  Concerning infant baptism, the New Testament tells us the apostles baptized entire households.  I believe this includes children.  We must also remember that Jesus said, 'Let the children come to me'.  If the kingdom of God also belongs to children, I see no reason why salvation should be denied to them.  Yes, I know that you don't believe baptism provides salvation, but I believe we are born again by water and the Holy Spirit.  How do Baptists interpret 'water' here?  Do they think it just refers to the umbilical cord, to life, or to the Bible?  On the topic of Martin Luther who is so esteemed by Protestants, I've learned a few very interesting facts.  He saw nothing wrong with polygamy.  He told Prince Philip of Hesse to marry a 17-year old girl because by having a second wife, he would not commit adultery with her!  However, he denied this publicly.  He told Prince Philip to do this in secret, and even his friend Phillip Melancthon, disagreed with this. Luther told people to marry because it was the only way to avoid fornication.  Sadly, he didn't think humans could abstain from sex.  He was extremely anti-semitic and told people to burn down synagogues and destroy Jewish homes.  He said premarital sex was OK if you intended to marry the person you were with, he married followers who were divorced, he added the word 'alone' to his translation of Romans 3:28, and he was a heavy drinker.  Once, while drunk he said Jesus Christ committed adultery with Mary Magdalene, the Samaritan woman at the well and Mary of Bethany. Even if he didn't mean it, I find it shocking.  Not even Lutheran theologians deny he said this!  Apparently he had quite a filthy tongue.  I see a lack of morals in both the founder of Lutheranism and the founder of Anglicanism.  Are such founders good role models?  How can they compare with Jesus Christ?  To be fair though, I think John Wesley was a good man, and I can't say anything critical of John Smyth because I know so little about him.  Did you know that all Protestant churches opposed artifical birth control until the 1930's?  I guess there's the belief that people can't abstain from sex at all; natural family planning is just too difficult and requires too much discipline.  But artificial birth control makes adultery so much easier, and if it doesn't work, why not just use abortion as birth control?  Yes, the Catholic church is often ridiculed, but it speaks the truth on difficult issues such as abortion and homosexuality, unlike some Protestant churches.  Finally, on the topic of vestments, Catholic vestments in use today go back to around the 9th century.  The earliest vestments were apparently very simple and not so different from those of the secular world.  Current vestments are not based on priestly dress of the Old Testament, but they definitely have a longer history than the suit worn by Baptist ministers.  The necktie, for example, was perhaps invented by Croatians around 1648, or perhaps in the 19th century.  In either case, this was after 1609, the year John Smyth founded the Baptist church, I believe.  I agree that priests should not wear long, flowing robes because anything too expensive or too ornate distracts from the priest's message, but I don't see this in the vestments worn by Catholic priests.  I think they are a wonderful link to our past.  This is also seen in the beautiful liturgy and the occasional use of Latin, a practice which I doubt the Baptists ever use.  I hope you've found my comments and questions interesting.

God bless you!

Answer
Blessings and thank you for your questions,

1.  Yes, I know that you don't believe baptism provides salvation, but I believe we are born again by water and the Holy Spirit. How do Baptists interpret 'water' here?
Water here stands for Baptism for the remitance of sin and for repentance.  (Acts 13:34; 18:25; Romans 6:4)  You see a baby cannot repent, the baby is not doing it on its own.  I am not saying Baptizing infants hurts anything, I am saying that it doesn't "save" them.  Children are God's.  Until they become accountable for their own actions and sins, they do not need salvation.

2.  Luther:  I don't look at Luther as a perfect example of Christianity.  
     a.  polygamy:  This was allowed in the Bible both in the Old and New Testaments.  But, it is not God's desire.  I believe God intended for there to be 1 man and 1 woman in a marriage relationship.  It is hard for several women to become "one" with a husband they share.
     b.  extremely anti-semitic-  Luther's anti-semitism actually came from his catholic background.  The Catholic church believed that it was the fault of the Jews that Jesus died on the cross, therefore, we should persecute jews.  The Catholic church even condoned Hilter's views on the Jews.  Thankfully, the current pope, John Paul, repented on behalf of the church, 2 years ago, for these views.  I believe ALL anti-semitism is wrong.  Luther was wrong on this as well.
      c.  I have never ever read anything by Luther that said that pre-marritial sex is okay.  If he did, he was wrong.
      d.  Drinking - drinking is not a sin.  Drunkeness is.  Again, I have seen those comments by Luther.  If he did make them, He was wrong.
      e.  Role models - if they did make these comments or had these views, then they were wrong.  But what you do fail to see is that we don't look to Luther, Wesley, or any other Theologian for our believes, morals, or as role models.  We only look at Christ and the Bible.   You need to also remember the sins of the popes.  What about the "nephews of the popes?"  Remember, popes would have sex with women, then the children that came out of the those relationships were called "nephews" since they did not want to admit their own sin.   The reason the Catholic church made celabacy part of the priests vows was because the church could not afford to pay for both the livelyhood of the priest and a family.  So, the vow was added to save money.

      f.  Birth control- before 1930, birth control wasn't even an option for people.  The difference between birth control and abortion is that birth control takes place before conception (the beginning of a life).  Abortion is ANYTHING that openly kills a new life.

      g.  Difficult issues - you are right.  Many protestant churches have abandoned all morals and are preaching a watered down, sinful gospel.  We do not do that.  If the Bible says it is wrong, then it is wrong.

       h.  Preistly garments - I HATE NECKTIES, I only wear them for funerals and weddings.  I don't wear robes or any other "priestly garments."  I am myself.  I don't think God really cares what I wear as long as it doesn't cause another person to sin.

        I.  Liturgy - remember, we don't use any Liturgy.  The only book we read from is the Bible.  

Blessings on you.