Expert: Rev. Robert Woods - 3/13/2007

Question
Thank you so much for this thorough answer, i have been trying to find out as much as i can lately about the methodist/baptist differences.  I grew up believing that faith alone saves us, not baptism.  Is this what baptists "officially" believe or do they believe that faith + baptism is necessary for salvation?  Thanks so much.
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The text above is a follow-up to ...

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my husband was raised methodist and i am baptist.  what would be required of him to join the baptist church?
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BLessings and thank you for your question.

If your husband is the typical methodist, then he was most likely baptized as an infant.  Most Baptist churches require that a person have "believers baptism."  That means that a person must state that he has accepted Jesus as his personal Savior and must be baptized through immersion as a symbol of that belief. Most Baptist churches will not accept any form of infant baptism.  

In the US, Baptist constitute 27 groupings and their total membership is about 30 million.  Baptist churches are completely independent, yet bound together by an amazing common allegiance to principles and doctrines.  They claim no founder but Christ, and often claim they have been preaching since John the Baptist.  When the Reformation began in the 16th century, scattered Baptist groups in Europe advocated doctrines that eventually united them.  As the left wing of the Reformation, they were called ANA-Baptists ("to baptize again"), because they immersed (dunked) those who had been baptized in infancy.  They held to a literal application of the Bible, were communal and pacifistic, and opposed capital punishment, taking oaths in court, and the holding of public office. They insisted upon the complete separation of church and state.  Undergoing persecution for their then - radical views, they spread all over Europe.  In Holland a group of Mennonites, followers of the former Anabaptist leader Menno Simons, were teaching Anabaptist principles and took in  a group of British refugees undergoing persecution under James I.  One of their leaders, John Smyth, completely accepted the teaching of the Mennonites.  Smyth and his followers were rebaptized, became Anabaptists, and organized the first English Baptist church in 1609.  However, they remained English and refused to take on all the accoutrements of the Mennonites.  As persecution waned, the English Baptists went back across the channel and began a Baptist church in London.  Although they spread, they divided again, this time over the theology of the Atonement.  The General Baptist churches held that Jesus Christ died for everyone, while others held to the teachings of the Particular Baptist church - following the teachings of John Calvin - that salvation was only for those predestined by God.  The first Particular (British) Baptist Church had its beginning in 1638.  A third group, Immersion Baptist, broke away and in 1644 produced a confession of faith that is still in use by many.  For the first time, these Christians were popularly known as Baptists.  In 1631 Roger Williams went to America, and although he was not a Baptist, established a Baptist church at Providence, RI.  In 1814 Baptists organized the General Missionary Convention of the Baptist Denomination in the United States of America for Foreign Missions.  This step marked the first real denominational consciousness and united the Baptists.  They formed a society for publication as well as for missions and education.  In 1845 came the major split.  Southerners seceded from the union over the issue of slavery, and formed the own Southern Baptist Convention to carry on the work of their churches.  What was left of the General Missionary Convention formed the Northern Baptist Convention which changed its name to American Baptists Churches USA. The two have remained separated ever since.  Baptists generally agree upon the Bible as the inspired Word of God, the supremacy of Jesus Christ, inherent freedom of individuals to approach God for themselves, salvation by faith through God's grace, two sacraments (called ordinances) of Baptism (adult only immersion) and the Lord's Supper, the independence of the local church, the church as a group of regenerated believers, complete separation of church and state, the immortality of the soul, and the ultimate triumph of God's kingdom.  Because Baptists have had freedom of expression in the pulpit and pew, they are quite democratic.  This means that liberal and conservative doctrines can be preached freely because each church is autonomous.  Local churches license and ordain candidates for the Ministry.


Methodists.  The Methodist originated as a nickname for a group of Oxford University students in 1729 because of their methodical application to Bible study and prayer.  The three dominate figures of this group were John and Charles Wesley and George Whitefield.  In the beginning the Methodists appealed primarily to the Lower classes, mainly through open-air meetings, The first Methodist church society began in London in 1740.  Between 1739 and 1774, the organizational elements of Methodism were instituted and a phenomenal growth started.  Methodism began as a lay movement, and John Wesley tried to keep it with in the church of England.  In 1739 Wesley drew up a set of general rules, which modern Methodists still hold.  Wesley died before the Methodists became a recognized church.  The Methodists spread to the new world.  Bu 1773 more than 1600 worshiped in America, but less than half that number existed 4 years later because the Methodists tended to be pro-British.  They seemed doomed to extinction by 1776.  Francis Asbury's leadership of the Methodists at this crucial period lead them forward, and they prospered.  In England Wesley accepted the inevitable changes, ordained ministers for the colonies, and appointed Asbury and Thomas Coke as superintendents.  The Methodist Episcopal Church was born in December, 1784 with its first general conference held in 1792.  Circuit riders moved westward with the population and the denomination flourished.  They had differences all along, however; some groups split off because of the emphasis upon the Episcopal Church.  Prior to the Civil War the Methodists, like the other denominations, split over the slavery issues.  They stayed separate denominations until 1939.  The uniting conference of 1939 adopted a new constitution, and this action began the reuniting Methodists in the US.  Theologically the Methodist have never been strongly separatists.  Many of the churches repeat the Apostles' Creed and the theology is Arminian as interpreted by Wesley.  Methodists believe in the Trinity, the natural sinfulness of humanity, the need for repentance and conversion, freedom of the will, justification by faith, sanctification and holiness, future rewards and punishments, the sufficiency of the Bible for salvation, baptism (infant and adult), the Lord's Supper, the enabling grace of God and perfection.


Now the two denominations have several things in common.  Both are evangelical (meaning both believe in having a conversion experience for Salvation and the need to go out to win converts).  Both believe in Baptism (but disagree over the method).  Both believe in the Trinity, the Bible, the Divinity and Humanity of Christ, the Lord's Supper, the need for repentance,  the freedom of will, justification by faith, sanctification and holiness, future rewards and punishments, and the enabling Grace of God.

Differences:
  1.  Baptists do not believe in infant baptism, Methodists do.  Baptists only Baptize believers (no infants) by immersion (dunking), Methodist use several means.
  2.  Baptists believe in eternal sanctification or "once saved always saved."  Some Methodists agree, most do not.
  3.  Methodists by name, believe in a "method" of worship, Bible study, and Prayer.  Baptists do not believe in any "method."  They believe only what is taught in the Bible.  They believe that the Holy Spirit helps us to interpret the Bible, study, and pray.  In Worship, Baptists do not follow any format, do not quote any creed, or go by any method.  
  4.  Baptists have no hierarchy.  Baptist churches are independent, even if they belong to a convention.  Each Baptist church owns its own property, hires its own pastor, and makes its own decisions on determination and theology.  Most Methodist churches are denominationally aligned.  They are controlled by the Denomination.  A Bishop or Superintendent directs the church, can veto positions taken by the church, and assigns a pastor to the church.  In many cases the denomination owns all or part of the church structure, keeping the church in line or removing itself from the denomination.
  5.  In the last few years, the United Methodist church has become more liberal in its theology.  With their new motto (Open Minds, Open hearts, and Open Doors)and a year 2000 resolution, they are now accepting homosexuals into their body without requiring repentance of this sin.  However, the denomination still does not believe in gay marriage or the ordination of gay ministers.  Baptists as a whole do not deny anyone the right to come to church, participate in worship, or fellowship with other believers; however, Baptists will not allow a openly gay individual to join the church without repentance of this sin.


Answer
Blessings and thank you.

Short answer:  Actually Baptists do not believe that Baptism is necessary to go to heaven.  Baptisim is the "Inanition or the first step" that one takes after he/she is saved. So if you are saved and made Jesus your Lord, then you WILL be baptized.


Long Answer: Why do we die?  The Bible says, "It is appointed for men to die" Hebrews 9:27.  Yet when it occurs, people have difficulty in accepting the reality of the event.  Paul called death "the last enemy" 1 Cor. 15:26.  He also taught that death entered the world as the result of sin, Romans 5:12.  If there had not been sin, there would have been no death, Romans 5:17.  Death is more than a natural phenomenon:  "The soul who sins shall die" Exek. 18:4  When Paul describes death as receiving the "wages of sin," he means much more than its inevitable consequence Roman 6:23.  Death is God's verdict upon human sinfulness Romans 1:23.  Jesus Christ conquered death when He overcame sin and the devil.  Spiritually, believers have already passed from death to life John 5:24, and the broken relationship with God has been restored.  Believers still face the weakness and pain that accompany dying, but they need not be afraid of death itself.  Jesus Christ the victor will finally overcome the last enemy also 1 Cor. 15:26, 54-57.
Our penalty for sin is death.  Sin is the reason we are condemned to Hell.  The only way to go to heaven is to have that sin forgiven.  The Bible says the only way to do that is to have salvation through Jesus Christ.  In fact, the Bible says no one or other way is available for salvation except Jesus.  John 14:6  “Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”  You cannot get to God except through Jesus.
How are we saved? God wants you to know that you are a sinner and cannot save yourself. "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23) God wants you to know that Jesus Christ has already provided the way of salvation. "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but will have everlasting life." (John 3:16) You must repent of your sins, confess them and forsake them. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (I John 1:9) God wants you to know that acceptance or refusal determines your destiny. "Everyone who has faith in the Son has eternal life. But no one who rejects Him will ever share in that life, and God will be angry with them forever." John 3:36  “Those who call upon the name of the Lord, will be saved Romans 10:13.   “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.” Eph. 2:8 If you wish to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life, then you must pray to God and let Him know that you believe, you repent of your sins, you ask for forgiveness, and you ask Him to save you and be your Lord (Master).  A Prayer would go something like this: "Dear God, I believe Jesus died on the cross for me and is alive today. I know I am a sinner. I am sorry for my sin. Please forgive me. I want Jesus to live in me as my Savior and Lord. Thank you for hearing me. In Jesus' name. AMEN."
All those who are saved go to heaven.  All those not saved, go to Hell.  It is that simple.
Remember, God does not send anyone to hell because they never heard of Christ or never accepted Him.  He sends people to Hell because they have sinned.  Romans 3:9-12 tells us “What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written:  "There is no one righteous, not even one;  there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless;  there is no one who does good, not even one." Even a Child knows the difference between what is right and wrong.  As an adult, we cannot say that we are ignorant of what is right and what is wrong.  The judgment for sin will be in relationship to how much they knew.  A person growing up in the U.S. with a church on every corner will be judged more harshly than someone who never even heard the name of Jesus.  But even someone who grew up in an uncivilized jungle knows in his conscience that there is a god that is worthy of worship.  The Bible says his conscience will either accuse him or excuse him on the day of Jesus Christ.  God is not going to condemn people if their own consciences excuse them.  Regretfully, every human being has sinned against his or her own conscience.  God does not judge people for failure to believe in Jesus, but because they are sinners.  The Bible says that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God."
What about those people in the Old Testament?  Before Jesus came to this earth, it was faith that put people in right standing with God.  Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2 This is what the ancients were commended for. 3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. (see Hebrews 11)
Original sin is the term for being born a sinner.  Remember, man was created in the image and likeness of God.  Man was a free moral agent, freely able to choose God or turn away from him.  By eating the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he did the one thing he was asked not to do.  Breaking God's one commandment to him was sin.  At that point Adam and Eve were driven from the Garden of Eden and cut off from the tree of life.  From that moment on, the spirit of man was damaged.  It is as if man is now born with a moral handicap.  He is lame in the most important part of his being- his spirit.  That is original sin.  There is a rebellious nature in most children.  They just like to do whatever you tell them not to do.  This natural rebellion stems from man's original sin.  Instead of being morally free, man has a decided tendency toward sin - urged on toward evil by what is called "the world, the flesh, and the devil."  Original sin is a tendency to do evil, not an act of evil itself.  God does not punish people for tendencies to do evil, only for what evil they do in light of what they know.  In other words, babies and children do bad things but do not truly understand the difference between good and evil.  They may even know that what they are doing is wrong, but they do not understand that it is evil.  Therefore, little babies and young children do not go to hell because of original sin, because babies have never committed any sinful acts.  So babies do not even need to be baptized until they are old enough to choose Christ and baptism themselves.
Baptists believe that once you are saved you are always saved.  That accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and believing in Him means you go to heaven.  Nothing else will give you salvation.  We believe that you are saved forever because: 1. there is security because of God's Promises (Romans 8:31-39), 2.  God's presence assumes security (John 10:27-30 & John 3:16), 3.  Because of God's power the believer is kept (1 Peter 1:3-5),  
My wife and I adopted a child.  We have come to love her just as we love our other 2 children.  Can you imagine that we would stop loving her just because she did something wrong or was disobedient to us?  When you are saved, you are adopted into the family of God.  You must, out of your love for God, try to live a Godly life.  Acts of sin or rebellion will take away the joy of salvation.  When David committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed, he lost the joy of his salvation.  When he wrote Psalm 51 about it, he said, "Restore to me the joy of Your salvation." He had no joy, because he had rebelled against God.  He did not lose his salvation, only the joy of it.  Jesus said in John 10:29 that "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."  Once you belong to God, you can never be taken away.    There is a difference between being immature in Christ (that is still sinning) and rebellion (those who sin without salvation).
However while a person can not lose his salvation, a person can openly denounce God.  If a Christian were to become a Muslim or a Satanist, then they are publicly and spiritually saying that they denounce their salvation.
Hell is both physical and spiritual. It is a place and not simply a condition. It is the place where all those who have refused the gift of salvation from Jesus Christ go upon death. Jesus presented it as a place of eternal torment for the devil, his angels, and the sons and daughters of Adam who rejected him and his sacrifice for their sins.  It is a place of damnation where the fire is not quenched (Matt 23:33; Mark 9:48). Their soul leaves their body and descends into the physical place hell.  Now, at the end of time in Rev. 20:11-15, all those who died without Christ will rise from the dead.  Their literal bodies will reform and stand before God in judgment.  Then their bodies will join their souls in hell for eternity.  
It has been said that if Jesus is not God, then we should worship the man who thought him up. Never has anyone in history spoken the way he did.  I see that the teachings of Jesus are self-validating.  Throughout history, they have been proven true over and over again.  When the teachings of Jesus are put into practice, they lead to peace, harmony, victory, and love.  This does not mean His teachings do not bring conflict.  For evil will always fight against the truth.  Jesus' words pulsate with wisdom.  For example, about governments "Give to Caesar the things of Caesar and to God the things of God."  The teaching that God the Father is a Spirit, not a man or woman.  The Sermon on the Mount has a treasury of wisdom, "Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you."  Remember, "Love your neighbor as yourself."  
Ultimately, I know that Jesus is God.  The only true God.  I know this because of the Holy Spirit.  The Bible tells us that our faith is foolishness to those who do not believe.  When I accepted Christ into my life, the Holy Spirit of God became a part of me.  I can feel His power.  I know the truth as He reveals it to me.  It is an overwhelming knowledge, joy, and peace.  Most other faiths cannot claim that they have true joy and peace.  I have been with a lot of people when they have died.  I have noticed that Christians seem to die at peace.  But non-Christians fight, and fight, and fight to their last breath and still die unhappy.