Expert: Dr. Ronald E. Shultz - 11/14/2005

Question
>Is your problem tied more to your low salary than the teaching of the tithe?

No. I was just trying to justify the teaching that the tithe today is biblical. Historically, biblically, the tithe was leveled only against the increase of the land, herds and flocks, not against wages. People earned wages back then just as we earn them today, and yet wage earners were not required to tithe of their wages, but today we are taight that this is the case. I cannot find any such requirement from the scriptures, even though teachers of this doctrine point at a source that simply does not provide backing for such a teaching. Where did the Law demand a tenth of those people's wages? I cannot find it anywhere. I'm not looking for rationalizations, because rationalizing is en exercise in subjectivity when it has no solid, lingual backing from the source it is claimed to have been derived.

> I can see how you might have an issue since you are at poverty level.

Actually, I am below poverty level, but you know, I'm content with what I have. I love the Lord no matter what I have or do not have materially. I love my family, and I serve the Lord wherever I can.

> As far as hard currency it depends on the time in history and the wealth of the individual.  A farmer might get a hard coin from a rich man or a city dweller but he was as likely to get a lamb for his wheat from a shepherd.  Bartering is always the system.  The only thing that changes is what is acceptable bartering material; lambs, gold bars or coins or in the Pacific islands, conch shells.

I consulted a historian at our local university who specialized in the era around the time of Christ, and he assured me that the Greco-Roman cultures, including Israel, had plenty of coin for the conduct of business, both agricutural and domestic goods within the cities. Although barter was a large part of their business practices, monetary transactions were also just as common as barter, if not moreso in those transactions where the purchaser was looking to purchase outright rather than to trade.

> Do you think a carpenter or soldier did not tithe?  You are the one making an unreasonable assumption from silence.

I am? Where then is it commanded that the wage earner is to tithe from his wages? Again, I prefer to stay away from rationalizing because without specific backing it is too subjective.

> Would it be fair for the farmers and herdsmen to tithe and everyone else not?  That would be equal to only farmers paying income taxes and the rest go free.

Well, if a mere question legitimized what cannot be legitimately defended from the texts themselves, then mormons and jehovah's witness followers indeed have a solid case against us Southern Baptists and most all other denominations when they say that their beliefs are just as valid as ours if all they have to do is ask questions that seem to lend credible substantiation of their premises and conclusions.

> The principle of tithing would have gone across the board but He used what the bulk of people would be doing to earn a living to detail the application of the principle but 1 out of 10 sheep or 1 out of 10 coins is still how it would work.

If this is true, then it must have specific, literal representation somewhere in God's Law. Otherwise it is a rationalization without any authoirtative backing. Anyone who has studied logic and a reasonable depth of philosophy knows this. As with anything else, if it is repeated often enough and loud enough, it gains a seemingly strong place of prominence in people's thinking so strongly that they cannot see, for example, that the emperor is in fact not wearing any clothing.

> The principle does not change just because the method of gaining income or increase changes.

This is one of the main areas of desparity between what you say and what I am reading. They simply disagree.

> Since the church has practiced the tithe since its conception it seems that the Apostle's did not forget to teach it but they used the principles given in the OT to do it versus writing anything new about it.  

So, are you saying that the Gentile believers knew the Law given to Israel without having to be taught those Laws? I must be missing something here. I realize that I am rationalizing here, but it does seem plausible that a doctrine of such importance would have enjoyed SOME metion in at least ONE of Paul's epistles, or any of the other letter from Peter, James, or someone. How do we account for the utter silence in the face of such a strong belief to the contrary?

> We are free from the law of sin and death so the sacrifical law is gone as is the dietary laws and the ceremonial ones but the moral laws stand as do things like taking your neighbors cow back if you find it in your field. Call them social laws if you like.  All Scripture taken in the proper context is profitable for us and can be used for doctrine.  Careful, or you will be a Church of Christ person.

Was not the tithe tied directly to the temple, just like the sacrifices and offerings? Was not the storehouse within the temple? Once that place lost its importance from the veil having been rent from top to bottom, did not those things all pass with the temple? Just wondering about your thoughts on this as well. Thanks.

> I see the parallel and I think you don't because it is hard to part with that $.70 an hour.  I have been at low slaries and tithed and God has blessed me greatly.  If He blesses me for doing it I reckon He approves.

Well, I have nothing left over after paying bills from which to tithe. If I tithed, then I would be in violation of 1 Tim. 5:8. As a matter of fact, it takes everything we make AND we are drawing from our savings just to make ends meet. Once the savings is gone, then we are left with having to become a burden upon others just to make ends meet. The law of economics simply dictate this beyond my control. The Lord hasn't showm me any other way so far, so this is what I am left with.

Thanks so much for your time.

Blessings

Darrel

Answer
I think you are way off on that wage earner thing.  Show me where they didn't tithe?  That is the argument from silence.  The Pharisees were not farmers but they paid the tithe.  Until you get past that assumption I can't help you.  I believe it is a false assumption but I don't know what else to tell you to do disprove it.  

OT:8393
tebuw'ah (teb-oo-aw'); from OT:935; income, i.e. produce (literally or figuratively):

KJV - fruit, gain, increase, revenue.

This is the word increase in Duet 14:28. What if I were a tenant farmer?  I receive a wage for plowing the master's field but I also have an acre for me.  I tithe only on the corn I raise on the acre, but not my wage from Master?

Both items are revenue or increase and the fruit or gain of my labors. I have heard many arguments against the tithe but this wage earner thing is a new one for sure. If a farmer sells his crops he receives in essence a wage for his labors though he is self-employed.

He could keep it all for himself and be as you say obligated to tithe on it.  By selling it to someone they have basically hired him to do something they chose not to do for themselves and thus it is a wage.  Any way you look at it the land's increase is an income.  Now, if he gives 10% of the crop to God for use in the temple would he be required to tithe on the other income of the 90% if he actually kept 10 for himself and sold the 80?  I would say probably not because he has paid the tithe and has only switched the commodity in his portfolio from produce to gold especially if he only broke even. If he makes a goodly profit and wants to thank God by giving some of that then that is a freewill offering.  The tithe is God's and offerings are up to the giver.  

Yes, during the Greco-Roman period coins were available but barter in goods has been around since the very beginning and like today some did not like hard money so they bartered and did hard money when they had to do so.  Since the value of a product is more debateable than a coin it would be better to have the product to barter since you may actually get more for it than a coin depending on how good a salesman you were.

Nevertheless, at the time of Abraham and Moses coins were not normally a means of exchange.  Precious metals in the form of bracelets, earrings and such, yes, but nations issue coins and Israel did not function as a true nation until Saul was made king. So Israeli coinage would not have been issued before then and I don't know when they actually started minting coins.  It is irrelevant.  Whatever, brings you profit or income is titheable.  Whatever are acceptable items of exchange in your time is what is used.  Even up to the 1970's I know pastors that received little money but had all the beef, milk and eggs they could handle and maybe a parsonage.  Bartering was still in full swing.

2 Tim 3:16-17

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. KJV

In context, everything from Gen 1:1 to Rev 22:21 is profitable for doctrine. This may be the verse used to explain the tithe to the Gentiles.  Not everything Jesus taught and did was recorded so some issues that the Apostles dealt with are not necessarily recorded either. Since the tithe is well covered from Abraham on, it would be a bit redundant, but look at this.

Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things. KJV

NT:2843
koinonikos (koy-no-nee-kos'); from NT:2844; communicative, i.e. (pecuniarily) liberal:
KJV - willing to communicate.

Hmm, how would you communicate or provide finances for a teacher of the Word?

1 Cor 9:13-14

13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
KJV

He goes right back to the temple and how was the temple provided for, by the tithe.  If you are a preacher than your income should be provided by the ones taught, which would be the Church and they tithe as the means of providing that income.

The tithe was tied to providing for the house of God and the people who worked there.  We still have a common worship area called the church and priests and levites now called Pastors, Associates, Assistants, etc.  Names have changed and the form of ministry has changed but there was no reason to change the way to provide for it.

Tithing for the local Church is pretty much proven in those two verses.  The only issue we now have that I doubt that I could ever change your mind about is the wage earner thing.  As long as you are stuck on that you will always be able to rationalize why you don't need to tithe.  I can't help you there, but maybe your situation would improve if you proved God on this issue.

Under your theory only farmers would do this and how many Christian farmers do you know?  Could they support all the various churches in the country?  I don't think so.

Mal 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may BE MEAT in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. KJV

Tithes were to provide for the ones who ministered in the temple.  Freewill offerings were basically how the temple was build and maintained.  It would be interesting to see how many buildings we might have if we reverted to that concept and maybe we should.  It might force more of us to worship together rather in 20 buildings 5 to 10 miles apart.


Luke 21:1-4
21:1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.

2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.

3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:

4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had. KJV

Think all those rich men were farmers and shepherds since most farmers and shepherds were poor? Here was a woman who maybe threw her last two mites in because they were her tithe or just because it was all she had but wanted to thank God for what she had.  Either way, she threw in about two day's worth of bread.  After that, she had nothing that she knew of but I believe that God provided for her.

You do what you you feel is right. I have no problem with the tithe.

Father, I pray that you will provide Darrel and his family with the means to meet their needs and then lead him to prove you in the tithe.  Open up the windows of blessing for him.  Put a hedge of protection around his family and keep evil from them.  Grant him great wisdom and discernment as he seeks Your will and way in the Word!  Amen!