Expert: Catherine - 4/28/2009

Question
QUESTION: Ok I am a 90210 junkie. I was watching Season 5 and something doesn't add up. The Walshes are starting to talk about having a baby together, but how old are they? I saw one episode where Cindy said she was in her mid-twenties when Brenda and Brandon were born? That would make her about 45 in season 5...but then she says she was younger. So, how old are the Walshes?

ANSWER: Hi there.  Yes - they certainly do seem to be too old to have kids in season 5.  Although their exact age is unclear... there are some clues that help us come up with an idea.  The first one is that there is an episode in season 1 called "the 17 year itch." In this one, the Walshes have been married for 17 years - assuming they got married out of college at around age 22, this would put them at about 39 - which makes sense with them being about 45 in season 5.  The other one, more telling, is that in the season 1 episode "one man and a baby" - cindy tells melissa that she knows what it's like to be a young mother.  Melissa says "but you weren't 17" and Cindy says, "no, but I was young enough."  I get the sense in this episode (i haven't seen it in a long time so I can't remember if it's actually stated) that Cindy was about 24 when Brandon and Brenda were born - which makes them about 40/39 in this episode (again on par for being 45 in season 5).  Then, in "Baby makes Five" in season 2, they all find out that Jackie is pregnant.  Jim says "man, she's gotta be pushing 40 at least," and Brenda responds "dad, i'd say she's been pushing it for a while." (implying that Jackie is over 40 - which is debatable)- again though.. they are clearly older than Jackie which makes them over 40 at this point towards the end of season 2.  (obviously they rethought their position on being older parents later in season 5). Also, in season 3, there is an episode called "Midlife, now what?"  In this one, Cindy is afraid that Jim has a crush on his secretary, Dottie.  Jackie says, "Let me guess, early 30's and a knock out?" and Cindy replies, "more like mid twenties and a knock out." Jackie says, "I know the type. I was the type." - in this episode it is COMPLETELY clear that the Walshes are in their 40's.  So.. they are definitely supposed to be about 45 in season 5.  Continuity errors are abundant in TV though, so they could have rewritten their ages to accommodate their story line.  Of course, we all know that one of the biggest continuity errors on "90210" is the fact that the kids are juniors twice and their age is stunted a year because of that.  Since the kids' ages change and have continuity problems, it is difficult to pinpoint the adults' ages perfectly, but I would say that you are correct - the walshes are in their mid-forties and probably made the right decision to not have any more children.  let me know if you have anymore questions!

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I've been watching a lot of 90210 and I didn't realize how one sided Kelly's character is. She's extremely judgemental and a hypocrite. She crticizes Valerie yet she has similarities to her. She is very hard on people including her mother, Mel, David, Dylan Claire...just about everyone. She's horrible to Dyland when during his drug relapse in season 5, not understanding to Donna when she's hurt over the break-up with David. Do any of the other characters ever call Kelly for being so harsh on people?

ANSWER: You are bringing up an interesting point, and I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't given a lot of thought to the character of Kelly.  I will try to keep this as short as possible, but I will probably struggle with that.  I first want to say, that the one thing I disagree with is that I don't think Kelly is one sided - I think she is easily the most developed character on the show. This is all completely my opinion, but I have come to some conclusions.  Kelly is extremely selfish but also extremely guarded.  (it's hard for me to put this in terms of this character being a fake person haha so I'm going to talk about her like she's real - i'm not crazy :)  No one was looking out for Kelly throughout her entire life - not Jackie, not a father, she didn't have any siblings - so she had to take care of herself and put herself first in order to survive that life. Because of this, she also doesn't trust anyone, so she is constantly harassing people so that they leave her or reject her before they can leave her.  Kelly finds faults in other people so that she doesn't have to address her own problems.  In the beginning, Kelly is very self centered and unaware of her rude behavior, but later, in seasons 3 and 4 - she becomes extremely self aware and aware of problems that she faced growing up (even to a fault where she thinks that the world is out to get her and that people only like her because she is pretty).  She suddenly faces all of her problems at once - her absentee parents (this was touched on but not fully addressed in seasons 1 and 2 except for "perfect mom"), her past sluttiness, her mom's divorce, the new baby, a new house etc and becomes much more aware of her impact on the outside world.  This does not however mean that she is any less self centered, but instead (especially in season 3), she takes on the role of the victim. She paints her room black, takes diet pills, and mopes around because she can't initially have Dylan.  Rather than being abrasive, Kelly becomes reflective, but she still has a very "me" attitude. I mean, in any other world, stealing your best friend's boyfriend would be a cardinal sin, but somehow Kelly makes it seem like it was the right thing to do (and I actually think Kelly and Dylan belong together, but that's another thing). During this time, she also takes on a maternal role towards David. She tries to help him and guide him even while also being critical of him.  This carries over in a huge way to his drug problem in season 4.  She is VERY loyal to David throughout this time, and I think that partly explains her lack of understanding to Donna.  Kelly does not back down or have an emotional investment in really anyone except for herself, so when someone gets mad at her, her natural response is to walk away from the problem.  As far as Valerie goes, again they are not real people, but my personal sense was always that Valerie reminded Kelly of her past and the way she used to be.  It's almost like Valerie is Kelly 5 years ago, and Kelly sees herself in Valerie so she rejects it because she doesn't like what she sees.  This is most telling when they go to the convent in season 6, and Kelly says, "who am I to judge Valerie? I slept with my best friend's boyfriend. I slept with my boyfriend's best friend." I always got the sense that deep down there was an understanding between them, and there were key moments when they helped eachother - the 5 year reunion, and Valerie's fake abortion are probably the best examples.  There is an honesty between some of their conversations that doesn't come across between any of the other characters.  Also keep in mind, that the hatred starts when Kelly finds out that Valerie is cheating on Steve - something that she has done - she is instantly harsher on Valerie than anyone else because she can't tolerate negative behavior in anyone else that reminds her of herself. As far as Dylan goes, that's another several paragraphs, but she has a short fuse when it comes to him, and I think that part of the reason is that she is trying to prove to herself that these people failed her. She is reminding herself that Dylan is a failure so she doesn't have to think about the regret that she has for breaking up with him.  Kelly's cocaine use is another example of her selfishness - she is only thinking about herself and doesn't care about anyone including Donna.  The post-drug Kelly is yet another stage in character development.  She loses some of her feistiness and is even more convinced that people are going to screw her over.  She becomes depressed again in season 7 over not having Brandon, but only thinks about herself - not about Tracy or Brandon's relationship or her other friends. Then in season 8 she is hyper-critical of Brandon and eventually he does cheat on her, and she is able to validate her distrust of him because he did screw her over.  Later on, she just ups and leaves Matt for Dylan.  So... hahaha.. I'm not crazy, I promise, but basically yes, Kelly is extremely judgmental.  Donna does call her on it in that fake flashback in "What i did over my summer vacation and other stories" and Brandon does get annoyed with her in season 8, but then again, he did cheat on her.  Other than that - this is all kind of glossed over because the audience does understand Kelly and relates to her, and I don't care what anyone else says - Kelly is, by a clear mile, the main character of the series.

I also want to say that as far as Clare goes - there is never anyone on the show who is as critical of other people as Clare is.  She is extremely type A and has a very strict set of beliefs - this is what leads to clashes between her and Kelly because in a way they are similar, but Kelly's self-centered behavior often goes in direct contrast to Clare's idea of what's fair and just, and she has a hard time tolerating people who stray from her mold (like when Tara moves in, when she finds drugs in the apartment - and with her relationships with David and Steve)

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi there...

Don't worry about real people on the show vs. characters. It's ok, I understand. They tend to become real; that's why it's good to see the reunion show.

I agree with you on Kelly. She is a main character on the show. Jennie Garth is as good an actress as it gets on 90210. Your answer was great and I do see what you mean. I never really took much stock with Clare.

I still think Kelly's character is immature and very judgemental. Kelly's turn with drugs wasn't as well written as it could be. I see Kelly as someone who has issues with other women. She's needs a lot of attention and is constantly angry when she isn't first.

Kelly is angry when Dylan helps Brenda. She angry at Suzanne and Erica and Dylan's relationship with them. She doesn't like Emily Valentine (although that would be natural). She competitive with Val regarding the men she's with. She' not understanding about Jackie and is constantly crtical of the way she raises Erica.



I think you're right that there are similarities between Valerie and Kelly. The first is that Valerie is gorgeous and the competition between the two is pretty fierce. Val competes for all the men that Kelly had or cares for: David, Brandon, Colin, Dylan... That's hard for Kelly to deal with.

Kelly tends to befriend people that are not in her circle like Tara and, to a big degree, Donna. If they hadn't put placed the characters of Donna with Kelly, in real life they wouldn't be friends. Donna is very sweet and protective of people and friendships. She also doesn't believe in pre-martial sex.I think one of the reasons that Kelly and Donna are friends is because Donna isn't a threat to Kelly in any way.

Donna does whatever Kelly says....including not paying David for her portion of the rent (which I thought was really wrong). However, Donna does give money to David behind Kelly's back.

I just don't see Kelly as supportive with people. Donnna is the most supportive character who witholds judgement on people.

What's your theory with Kelly's friendships with women?

Answer
I think that Kelly definitely has a hard time being friends with other women. Brenda is virtually Kelly's first close friend, and they don't meet until Kelly is 16 - that in itself is a red flag. Then, she completely screws Brenda over. When she is competing with Brenda for Dylan, she feels threatened by Brenda and becomes combative with her rather than regretful of the fact that she has taken her best friend's boyfriend. She feels threatened by Brenda's relationship with Dylan's family (including his mother) because she is afraid that Dylan will be influenced by this and go back to Brenda. With Valerie, it is also telling that Kelly is the only one who has a permanent problem with her. Although Donna fights with her on a case by case basis, Kelly is the only one with the vendetta. I definitely think that Kelly feels threatened by Valerie given Valerie's relationship with the guys in her life. Val is close friends with Steve, dates Kelly's "brother", David, and grew up with Brandon, and knew Colin (like you mentioned). Kelly gets mad at Valerie for writing Brandon a letter saying that he should leave Kelly - the fact that this letter is so threatening to Kelly shows that she feels that Valerie has tremendous influence over Brandon's life - something that she doesn't like. Susan and Celeste both intially hate Kelly - another indicator that she comes off as harsh towards other women. It does definitely feel as though Kelly likes to try to "save" people who she deems as being lesser than her, especially those people who aren't close friends. Tara is a good example of this as is the boy, played by Sam Saletta who she takes in during season 6 - Kelly likes helping wounded birds so to speak. Her friendship with Donna doesn't really full develop until Brenda has dropped Kelly from being her best friend. You are right, Donna never stands up to Kelly (or does so rarely), and Kelly often bullies her into submission (but Clare does too). She is also not extremely supportive when Donna is hospitalized for her drug overdose (she says, "you may not think so" (that Donna is an addict) "but your body disagrees" - this statement treats Donna like one of her patients rather than as her friend. She is not particularly interested in getting into the actual reasons that Donna ODed. I will say though that I think Kelly really does love Donna as a friend, and there are times when she reaches out to Donna, like after she is raped, but she definitely doesn't feel threatened by Donna like she does by Valerie and later Gina. Kelly would never intentionally hurt Donna, but like I was saying before, she is extremely self centered and doesn't realize that she's being a bad friend. She hates Gina too - right off the bat, and is jealous of her relationship with Dylan. Kelly is definitely insecure - there is no denying that - and she is always trying to get validation in other people that she is the best and most liked. The senior poll episode, although early on, is the best example of this, but her self deprecating behavior (journaling alone and being sad about Brandon in season 7) carries throughout the series. I think that you are right and said everything well - so there is not much more I can add.  I think you're right.  Kelly is definitely the most confident and least annoying in season 4 and that's my favorite season for her.