Expert: LEBoyd - 11/5/2008

Question
QUESTION: Hello. Jesus told his disciples on the night before his arrest in John 16:7 that they did not YET have the Counselor. Rather, it was necessary for him to "go away" in order for the Counselor to be sent. This seems to mean that, during the entire time his disciples had Jesus with them physically, they did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them.  Yet how can it be true that all this time they did not have the Spirit? When they confessed Jesus as the Christ (i.e. Mat 16:16, John 6:68-69) were they not saved and born again as Romans 10:9ff and 1John 5:1 would suggest? Many verses, such as John 6:44, 65, and 63, seem to teach that saving faith is miracle of life wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit. Yet, this would appear to contradict what Jesus declared in John 16:7. What is your position on this matter? Do you know what the spectrum of opinion is? Thank you in advance for your help!

ANSWER: James,

You are correct, the Holy Spirit was not dwelling in them when Christ was with them.  We see in Acts 1 that Christ ascends to heaven and prior to that says the Holy Spirit will come to them shortly.  In Acts 2, we see that the Holy Spirit did come upon them on what is commonly called the Day of Pentecost.

Prior to this day (including in the Old Testament) and after Moses, everyone was under the Old Law.  The sacrifices of the Old Law rolled the sins of the people of God forward.  Then, when Christ fulfilled the Old Law and became the sacrifice once for all (Heb 9 or 10), the people of God (both old and new) were able to be seen as pure by God.

As Acts 2 says, when the people asked "what shall we do to be saved?" Peter answer clearly in verse 38.  And here we see at baptism the gift of the Holy Spirit is received.

There are many things that are necessary for salvation.  In addition to "saving faith", there is confession that Jesus is the Christ, there is baptism, there is repentance, there is hope, there is continuing to "walk in the light" (1 John 1:7) and of course there is grace.

Many believe that baptism is not necessary because somehow they believe that this is a "work" and since we cannot work our way to heaven then baptism cannot be necessary.  But these same people say that confession is necessary and most say that saying a pray (something like the "Sinner's Prayer") is necessary.  Are not these "work"?  They are all action.

Consider Acts 2 and the conversion of Saul/Paul in Acts 8.  What does Saul/Paul do during the three days that he is blind?  He prays.  Does he have saving faith at that time?  Absolutely.  But when is he saved?  His own recounting of the events in Acts 22 says that he was told to "Arise, be baptized and wash away your sins."

Now consider Romans chapters 6 and Galations 3:26-27.  Many say Romans chapter 5 says that only faith is necessary.  But why remove Romans 6?

Baptism (Immersion) is not a work that saves you.  It is baptism with everything else - the grace of God, faith, repentance, pray, confession, etc.

We cannot work our way to heaven, but there are actions that are required for one to become a child of God.  Everyone is created by God, but not everyone is a child of God.

Now, in regards to whether the Spirit helps lead people to God, we can see that this is true.  Cornelus was lead to Peter by the Holy Spirit in Acts 9 (I believe).

So what can be happening here?  It appears the simplest answer is that the Spirit helps lead people to salvation but does not dwell in them as after we are baptized.

Hope this helps.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you for your reply. We are in agreement, I assume, that the disciples were, in fact, led to salvation by the Spirit of God in Mat 16:16, for example, even though the Holy Spirit did not come and make his home within their hearts as he did at Pentecost, correct? So, it is your position that the Spirit of God did not "dwell" in them and yet led them to salvation. While this conclusion harmonizes with John 16:7, it does not touch upon the question of whether the disciples were led to salvation by the Spirit through his supernatural work **inside** their hearts. This is a critical question. Do you feel that verses like John 6:63 or Mat 16:17 would suggest an inner heart operation? But do you feel that, in order to perform this inside job in their hearts and thereby lead them to salvation, he may have entered and did this work and then left? Or do you think he never entered but did his work in their hearts from a distance, so to speak? Thank you again for your help.

Answer
James,

Yes, you are correct in understanding what I believe the Scriptures teach.  I don't believe there is a contradiction in how the Spirit works on those not saved.  We know in Revelation (20 or 21) it says that Jesus is at the door knocking, which I believe is a reference to the door of ones "heart".  Obviously, "heart" is not a place or thing, but a way to reference one's inner feelings.  So, when we use the reference of "heart", we never mean the actual, beating heart organ.  Therefore, it does not seem to be a contradiction to me.

Hope this helps.