Expert: Clifford H. Readout, Jr. - 4/23/2008

Question
Praise the Lord! You were here in New Zealand for a men's camp a few years ago and I enjoyed your thorough and methodical approach to difficult questions.

Apologies in advance for this long question:
I have done some research on this topic and am aware of the Scriptures used by both sides of the argument (1Cor11, 1Cor14, 1Tim2, Acts2, Joel 2, others) Ato support or reject women speaking in church. Anyway, my question:

Putting all the "intellectual debate" to one side (that is obsessed with the history of Corinth, the Canonisation and authenticity of various verses, where verse numbers start and finish, death by etymology and hermeneutics into greek and aramaic), what is the Lord really saying about women, their role in the home church, in the 'temple' corporate church, the time to speak / not to speak, and their ability to hold positions of authority / to teach? Referring to verses around 1Cor14:34 in particular, but please cross-reference other Scriptures as much as you like.

I am familiar with the Apostolic/Pentecostal doctrine regarding women's authority/hair covering and God's ordained order as per 1Cor11:3. In answering, please go as deep as you need to in order to help me get a clear view on this 'controversial' subject.

Thanks!

Answer
Dear Simon,

Greetings in the name of the Lord. I remember that visit to New Zealand very well! The fellowship was wonderful, and I enjoyed teaching the brethren. There is a plan in the works for my wife and me to return to New Zealand sometime in 2009. I am looking forward to it, even though it will probably be the last time I will be able to make the trip.

I am not sure it is possible to answer the questions without utilizing some intelligent investigation of the Greek text, and it is never wise to ignore the cultural setting of any text which provokes controversial ideas. Nevertheless, I think I know “what is the Lord really saying about women, their role in the home church, in the 'temple' corporate church, the time to speak / not to speak, and their ability to hold positions of authority / to teach?”

The following comers from my copyrighted study titled, "The Leadership Ministry of Women in the Bible." © 2003 Clifford H. Readout, Jr. I hesitate to post it on this site, but will for your sake.

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We should not ignore the Old Testament foundations for this subject. It is clear that women were recognized and respected as “prophetesses.” Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Deborah (Judges 4:4), Huldah (2 Kings 22:14), Noadig (Nehemiah 6:14), and Anna, just before the founding of the church (Luke 2:36). It is impossible to relegate these women to a stature and authority beneath that of other prophets in their days. It will also serve us well to consider the status of a godly woman in the Book of Proverbs. What man is spoken of in Proverbs with any greater praise and recognition of stature?

When considering the specific meaning of I Corinthians 14:34-36, there are a few things we must not ignore.

1. Titus 2:4 proves, at the least, that any older woman has a teaching ministry to younger women.

2. Paul doesn’t change his mind about the propriety of women praying or prophesying between 1 Corinthians 11:5 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-36. So, 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 can’t mean that women are not allowed to speak in the church! There must be some other meaning.

3. Notice that even those women who did have a vocal role in the church did so under the authority of a man! Priscilla was under the authority of her husband Aquila. The women who shared in Paul’s ministry did so under his authority. Phillip’s daughters were under the authority of their father.

4. 1 Timothy 2:8-15 Refers to a women who is not under a man’s authority; 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 speaks of questioning in public an authoritative man’s teaching. (1 Corinthians 7:10; Ephesians 5:22; Colossians 3:18; 1 Timothy 3:11; 1 Peter 3:1, etc.)
So, 1 Corinthians 14:35 refers to a learning process for women, not against women as teachers.
Women are not to question the teacher and or his teaching in public, but to receive her spiritual instruction from her “head”/”authority”/”husband”. Neither is she to disturb or disrupt the authoritarian teaching or preaching of God’s word in the assembly.

5. 1 Corinthians 13:34-36 does not prohibit women from being used of God in ministry or with vocal gifts. If it did, 1 Corinthians 14:31, which states that all may prophesy so the others can learn and be comforted, would then be untrue!

6. 1 Timothy 2:8-10 relates to the issue. Verse 9’s “In like manner also” refers back to praying everywhere, and doing so with the lifting up of holy hands, without wrath and doubting. The women are also to pray everywhere, and in like manner, do so with proper modesty and good works, which is the feminine equivalent of a man’s “lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.”

7. 1 Timothy 2:11 repeats the instruction of 1 Corinthians 14:35 concerning a woman’s learning process, that it be a matter of quiet subjection to proper authority without the right to publicly challenge something they think to be in error. If they believe something they were taught is erroneous, they are to take it to their husband at home to learn the truth of the matter. 1 Timothy 2:12 demands that a woman always yield to a man’s authority/leadership/teaching whenever it is available. It is apparent that the purpose is to build the priesthood of the husband, not to denigrate the woman’s ministry potential.

8. We must also look at the whole teaching of the New testament concerning women involved in ministry. There is a surprising amount of detail given to us.

The names of several prominent women are included in Paul’s salutations in Romans 16:1-15: Phebe, Priscilla (who is mentioned also in Acts 18, 2, 18, 26; 1 Corinthians 16:19; and probably also in 2 Timothy 4:19), Mary, Junia, Tryphena, Tryphosa, Persis, the mother of Rufus (and claimed by Paul as his own mother), Julia, and the sister of Nereus. This is not intended to be an exhaustive list of women in the New Testament, obviously, you may find other important women in your own study of the issue. I mention these because the way they are described can be instructive.

The most interesting of these is Phebe, for she is given the description of “diakonon” of the church in Cenchrea. This form of the word is used only two other times, Romans 15:8 and 1 Thessalonians 3:2. It is the feminine form of the word translated “deacon,” and “minister,” and “servant.” This is a strong evidence that she functioned in the office of a deacon in the church in Cenchrea.

Also, Luke 8:3 and Matthew 27:55 refer to certain Galilean women, mostly unnamed, who “ministered” unto Jesus of their substance, indicating that they were the main financial supporters of His ministry.

Most often overlooked in considering this subject is the fact that so many women are mentioned and named. It was not part of the culture to give attention to women at all, except in the most extraordinary circumstances. It seems probable that the Scriptures, especially the New Testament, grant to women a much higher status than most religions and cultures, even “Christianity” as it is practiced by the majority today. One ought not to forget that the Lord of Glory chose a woman to be the source of His Humanity: Galatians 4:4 “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law”. This does not justify the “deification,” or worship, of Mary (the idea is contrary to all scripture), but it does offer us a view of how God thinks of women. Mary is not blessed ABOVE women, but she is “blessed AMONG women.” (Luke 1:28, 42.)

The Scripture clearly records that women were included in the leadership ministry of the New Testament church. But to find it one must look at the words used to describe their involvement, and who else was described with those words. The important words are:
Laboured, fellowlabourers, fellowprisoners, fellowsoldier, and helper. Keep in mind that they were associates of the Apostle Paul!

When you consider the others who share these titles, it adds understanding about the leadership role of women in the New Testament.
Philippians 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.
Romans 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: (See also Acts 18:26.)
Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
Romans 16:12 Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord.
Philemon 1:2 And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:

Priscilla, Junia, Tryphena, Tryphosa, and Apphia, these women are thus given a ministry and status at least similar to that of Clement, Archippus, Urbane, Stachys, Timotheus, Lucius, Jason, Sosipater, Titus, Epaphroditus, Justus, Philemon, Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, and Lucas, a distinguished list of men, indeed! (Romans 16:9, 21; 2 Corinthians 8:23; Philippians 2:25; 4:3; Colossians 4:11; 1 Thessalonians 3:2; Philemon 1:1,2, 24.)

The word most commonly translated “elder” is presbuteros. It is necessarily translated “elder women” in 1 Timothy 5:2 because of the obvious application to mothers: “The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.”

While these facts from scripture prove the ministry of women in the New Testament church, they do not address the specific issue of whether a woman can be given ordination. This is primarily due to the fact that the modern concept of ordination far exceeds the use of the word in the Bible. Today it includes the idea of an advanced authority above that of other ministers, an idea absent from the Scriptures. A careful study of the words translated “ordain” and “ordained,” along with the texts where they are used will demonstrate that the modern idea is absent.
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Hope this helps.

Yours for Truth,

CR