Expert: Marilyn - 5/5/2008

Question
Hello Marilyn,

Anoher question for you, This muslim believes that in these certain passages, Jesus was prostrating or submtting his will to God, in other words, he says that Jesus was and is a Muslim for doing this, here is an excerpt from what this individual wrote.

non-believers have accused Christians of avoidance as a ploy or tactic employed at avoided certain realities Whathell. I have presented this one verse countless times throughout this particular forum asking for your and other Christains' thoughts on the matter....

Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].

right there the Bible says Christ prostrated and told G-d that he was willing to submit or suppress his own will to do G-d's will. what are your thoughts on this? ? ?

Also this is a two part question,there is another individual that says that the Bible claims two different events, and that these passages prove why there have been alterations in the Bible. Here are the passages:

2 Samuel 8:4 & 1 Chronicles 18:4 ….
2 Samuel 8:9-10 & 1 Chronicles 18:9-10 …
2 Samuel 10:18 & 1 Chronicles 19:18 ….
2 Samuel 24:1 & 1 Chronicles 21:1 ….
Or how about this, help me if I am wrong, okay, 2 Samuel 6:23 & 2 Samuel 21:8

I would as always appreciate you input on these subjects, Hope all is well and you and your family are always in my prayers.

Junior

Answer
Hell Junior;

Thanks for your prayers!

First, since Mohammed didn't even write the Koran until over five hundred years after Christ, it's laughable that someone would say Jesus was a Muslim.  No Muslims existed until Mohammed wrote the Koran.

Second, Jesus repeatedly called Himself "the Son of God."  The Koran says Allah has no sons and that Jesus is no Son of his:  

The Women, 4.171:  "O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector."

The Cattle, 6.101, "Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things."

The Cave, 18.4 & 5, "And warn those who say: Allah has taken a son.  They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers; a grievous word it is that comes out of their mouths; they speak nothing but a lie."

The Believers, 23.91, "Never did Allah take to Himself a son, and never was there with him any (other) god-- in that case would each god have certainly taken away what he created, and some of them would certainly have overpowered others; glory be to Allah above what they describe!"

So, either the Koran is a liar or Jesus is a liar.  If Jesus is a liar, why does Allah want Him for an Apostle?  

The Koran also says that Jesus did not rise from the dead, but this is not true.  Josephus, the Jewish historian living in Roman times, wrote that Jesus was a Rabbi who was crucified and whose followers believed had risen from the dead.  This establishes Jesus as a sure-enough, real, historical figure who had a following and who was crucified and believed to be raised from the dead.  All Jesus disciples died preaching Him raised from the dead, except John.  Persons will die for something they believe is true, but not for something they believe is a lie.  When the Koran says Jesus was not raised from the dead, the Koran is wrong.

The Women, 4.157, "And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure."

Mohammed admits Jesus existed, he denies Jesus can be the son of Allah and he says that Jesus resurrection is not true.  Based on the evidence of history and the testimony of Jesus' disciples, the Koran is a liar.

Why does prostrating oneself before God make one a Muslim?  Jesus came to do God's Will.  In this instance Jesus faced the cross; He faced the idea of bearing all the sins of every human being who had ever lived or who would ever live.  Clearly, His human will was taxed.  Whose would not be?  Who else will die willingly for guilty persons?   You don't see even relatives of persons on death row heading to the prison to take their death sentence in the convict's place.  

The word "gethsemane" is the name for a wine press.  In a "gethsemane" the grapes are crushed under the huge weight of a rotating stone.  Jesus is about to taste the cup of God's wrath, see Isaiah 63.  This is the cup He wishes He might avoid, but submits to anyway.  Given His circumstance why shouldn't He prostrate Himself before His Father and ask if there's another way?  Every Christian should prostrate Himself before God the Father and God the Son and choose God's will instead of his own.  Prostration does not make one a Muslim anymore than wearing a cross on a necklace makes one a Christian.

The standard Hebrew text most often used by today's Bible translators is the Masoretic Text.  The Dead Sea Scrolls are an earlier version.  Other versions of the Hebrew text are:  the Septuagint; Aquilia, Symmachus and Theodotion; the Vulgate; the Syriac Peshitta and the Targums.  Bible translators consult all of these texts when creating translations.  

Unfortunately, because human beings are copying older texts, mistakes will occasionally be made.  This does not discount the validity of Bibles in use today--in fact, it's astonishing so few errors have been made given the thousands of years of time these texts span!

Example 1:  The Septuagine and the Dead Sea Scrolls post the same number of captured charioteers in both passages, but the Masoretic text has a different number in one place.  Woop-tee-doo.  This doesn't prove anything except one scribe made a mistake in one version.  

Example 2:  In Hebrew Toi is a variant of Tou and Joram is a variant of Hadoram.  This is like Bill is a variant of William; Jack is a variant of John; Vicky, Victoria; Beth, Elizabeth, etc. etc.  UGH.  

Example 3:  Another unfortunate scribal error regarding a trivial quantity in a trivial passage that has absolutely no bearing on any theological issue.  

Example 4:  One Bible book attributes to God the act of inciting David to take a census, the other Bible book attributes this act to satan.  Repeatedly in the Old Testament God gets blamed for stuff satan does.    People of the Old Testament just know something supernatural happened so they attributed it to God without realizing satan is the one who actually was to blame.  The Book of Job is a picture of this principle in action.  We, the readers, know satan is messing with Job, but he doesn't.  He wails and says things like, "The Lord gives and the Lord takes away," etc. etc.  So one book of the Bible puts satan and the other puts God as the instigator, that's consistent with Old Testament people's confusion on the matter.

The Bible is a God inspired text, not a God dictated text.  It was written by humans, whether it be dictated by a human to a scribe or written personally by the author.  It has been copied many times, translated into different languages and considering all it's been through and how long it's been around, it's astonishingly accurate.

If that's the best they can do in terms of finding something wrong with the Bible's accuracy, I think it proves God can and does keep His Word!  

Sincerely,

Marilyn