Expert: Marilyn - 9/20/2008

Question
YES GOD CAN REVERSE HIMSELF HE DID IT MANY TIMES ,REMEMBER HE WAS SENDING JONAH TO NINEVEH TO TELL THEM HE WAS GOING TO DESTROY THAT CITY,BUT THE KING HAD EVERYONE DRESS IN SACKS AND ASHES AND PRAY FOR GOD TO FORGIVE THEM AND NOT DESTROY THEM,AND GOD DID CHANGE HIS MIND.............

Answer
Hello Robert;

I am completely revising this answer. The new material will be pasted here with the old answer left at the bottom.

Predestination and the question, "Does God know the future as a done deal?"

John Calvin was a French theologian who taught that God fixed everyone's future before we were born; decided some were to be saved and conversely others were to be damned. Also, he taught that God made these decisions based on His mercy, not on any kind of criteria we humans would find sensible. Martin Luther believed that God chose those who were to be saved at the beginning of time, but that the Bible doesn't say that the damned were predestined to be damned. Luther saw the human problem with this as a human logic problem, not a problem of logic with God. The Dutch theologian, Jacob Arminius, taught that man retains free will and can choose Christ. Some interpret his teachings as man brings his free will and faith to the table while conversely under Calvin man doesn't bring anything to the table.

"It (Calvinism) focuses on God’s sovereignty, stating that God is able and willing by virtue of his omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence, to do whatever He desires with His creation. It also maintains that within the Bible are the following teachings: That God, by His sovereign grace predestines people into salvation; that Jesus died only for those predestined; that God regenerates the individual where he is then able and wants to choose God; and that it is impossible for those who are redeemed to lose their salvation.

"Arminianism, on the other hand, maintains that God predestined, but not in an absolute sense. Rather, He looked into the future to see who would pick him and then He chose them. Jesus died for all peoples' sins who have ever lived and ever will live, not just the Christians. Each person is the one who decides if he wants to be saved or not. And finally, it is possible to lose your salvation (some arminians believe you cannot lose your salvation)," http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

"Calvin taught that, because God is sovereign, the eternal fate of all people depends totally and only on God’s unconditional predestination before time began. In answer to the question, “Why are some saved but not others?” Calvin gave the following answer: The difference is not in man, for all are equally dead in sin and depend on God’s grace to be saved. The difference is in God. Before the foundation of the world, God chose some to be saved and go to heaven; God chose the rest to be damned and go to hell. This is known as “double predestination,”  http://www.orlutheran.com/html/calvinisttheology.html

Specifics differ. Some say God doesn't foresee who will receive Him, He just chooses as He goes. Others argue that God foresaw who would receive Him and chose them on that basis and hence the future is a done deal, all we have to do is play out the script. And as mentioned above, God chose some people and chose them for His own reasons, no explanation to humans required, human free will is not a factor.

Calvin emphasizes human beings' total depravity and insists that the only way a human being can accept God at all is if He chooses the person, saves the person and then the person wakes up and says, "Oh, I believe in Jesus." John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist Church, held that, yes, human beings are totally depraved, but by God's Grace He still allows free will.

Let's examine what the Bible says about what God knows about the future and about our destinies.

The following is based on and attempts to prove the following ideas:

1) Any discussion of a biblical concept must take into account the entirety of the canon. Any conclusion one may draw from the Bible, that is any doctrine one might espouse or truth one might claim, must be supported by at least two or three different "witnesses" from the Bible. See Deuteronomy 19:15, "...a matter shall be decided by the testimony of two or three witnesses...," see also Matthew 18:16 and II Corinthians 13:1.

2) God doesn't know the future as a finished product. He speaks what He wants to happen into existence--these two things are not one and the same.

3) God created human beings little "g" gods and endowed them with godlike powers, which include among them: free will. He intended this system: human beings would rule and reign on planet earth and He would be their Over-King as the Bible says: King of Kings and Lord of Lords

*******

Throughout the Gospel accounts Jesus engaged in an escalating battle of words and wits with the Pharisees. In John 10 they were hopping mad, ready to stone Him yet again. Verses 31-35: He asked, "I've done great miracles, why are you preparing to stone Me?" They answered, "We are not stoning you for any of these, but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, claim to be God."

In John 8:58, a chapter earlier, Jesus ended a round of verbal jousting with the declaration, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I AM!" They tried to stone Him at that moment, but He did that "jumper" thing (allusion to the movie "Jumper" about a guy who can teleport himself to other locations on earth) and got away.

They understood quite clearly that Jesus had just identified Himself with the Father who Names Himself "I AM" during the burning bush encounter with Moses. "Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His Name?' Then what shall I tell them?" God said to Moses, "I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has me to you,'" Exodus 3:13 & 14.

The I AM sent part of Himself, specifically the Word--the part of Himself which is the Action in physical terms. The Word is the Person who created the earth: "...He has spoken to us by His Son...through Whom He made the universe," or as the Amplified Bible says, "...He has spoken to us in the Person of a Son...through Whom He created the worlds and the reaches of space," Hebrews 1:2. (All Scripture references are from the NIV unless otherwise noted.) Jesus is as much I AM as the Father or the Holy Spirit. I AM came first as a Voice and a Fire to Moses in a bush. Later, He sent His Word to become a Man. Both intrusions into human history were done for similar purposes. I AM came to free the Israelites from Pharaoh's slavery; Jesus came to free humanity from sin's slavery. But the Pharisees see only a man who threatens their power and prestige. They are so stuck in their bad, legalistic ways they cannot see who He is.

In John 10 the verbal battle continues. Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?..."

Jesus is referring them to Psalm 82: "God presides in the great assembly; He gives judgment among the gods..."

In this chapter we see the power structure God has set up. He created us little "g" gods and He is our Over-King. Psalm 82 explains that the duty of the little "g" gods is to: defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed, verse 3; rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked, verse 4.

Verse 6, "I said, "You are gods, you are all sons of the Most High." Most High is the Name I've translated "Over-King." "King of Kings, and Lord of Lords;" El Elyon in Hebrew, literally: God Highest.

Jesus asserted that if He did the things little "g" gods were supposed to be doing, then He could not blaspheme by any way of measurement when He declared "I AM." And He's hoisting them on their own petards, so to speak, by indirectly pointing out that they do not fulfill the duties of little "g" gods because they do not properly care for the weak, the fatherless, the poor and the oppressed. Naturally, they're infuriated and attempt to seize Him, but once again He does that jumper thing and is gone.

So, if we are created little "g" gods, then it stands to reason we have little "g" god powers. A short list of little "g" powers: mathematics, music, literature, engineering, self-awareness and the one most important to this discussion: free will--truly free will.

Hebrews 2:6-8 quotes Psalm 8:4-6, " What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him? You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor and put everything under his feet."

The word "angel" here is a misinterpretation of the word "elohim." The Name Elohim is the Name God calls Himself in Genesis 1:1 and is the Name typically translated as "God." The Name Elohim is a latent plural Name indicating a minimum of Three in One. El=Strength + ohim=Faithfulness x 3. Ohim is the plural part.

The problem for translators is that elohim is also used in reference to angels. The reason for this is because angels have many of the same qualities as God--strength, faithfulness--and a unity of purpose and mind which the name elohim implies.

So, given what Jesus said and what Psalm 82 says, and what Hebrews itself says in chapter one verse 14, "Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?", this passage in Hebrews 2 (and Psalm 8:5) is mistranslated. It actually says we human beings were created a little lower than Elohim, the God of Genesis 1:1. And if you interpret this passage in Hebrews 2 to refer primarily to Jesus as "Son of Man" then the translation is even more suspect: Jesus never was, nor has He ever been, below angels. And finally, if angels are servants of the children of God, then believers are not below them; servants are below their masters, not the other way around.

This passage in Hebrews 2 identifies Jesus with humanity as a Human Being. In John 8:58 and John 10:34-38 Jesus announced that He is both God and god; He is I AM and Man. He has authority and power in both the Heavenly realm and on earth, though He temporarily emptied Himself of His Over-Kingship to come to earth and complete the mission to live a sinless life as a Man, with the prayer and Word resources available by faith to a Man, die to pay for man's sin as a Man and then to be raised from the dead as the Resurrected God/Man conqueror of death, wholly Master in all realms.

Jesus gives us a picture of what a little "g" god is supposed to be like; He is our Model. He said in John 14:12, "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in Me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." The Apostles in the early church give us a picture of what is possible for little "g" gods surrendered to the King of Kings can do when they walk by faith, not by sight.

As little "g" gods we've been given a domain--a place where we are to have dominion, to rule and to reign and that place is planet earth. "The highest Heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth He has given to man," Psalm 115:16. This remains true, even in our fallen state. "...God's gifts and His call are irrevocable," Romans 11:29.

When God created Adam He made Him in His Own Image. God breathed into Adam not only his own life, but every potential breath of life for every human being that would ever be conceived or might possibly be conceived. He breathed into Adam that intangible spark that makes a human being an eternal spirit within a material body. This spark is carried in the sperm, but does not become a human being until proper conditions are met. Until those conditions are met, the spark (in the sperm) is alive, but is only a potential human.

Genesis 1:27, "So God (Elohim) created (bara-made out of nothing) man in His Own Image, in the Image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

Genesis 2:7, "And the Lord God (YHWH or YHVH Elohim) formed (yatsar-made from existing material) man (Adamah-man made from dirt) from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (literally, "the breath of lives") and man became (literally "became to" in other words was transformed into) a living being (literally-another speaking spirit)."

In the first telling of the creation of man, God makes man out of nothing and in the second telling He makes him from existing material. These are two accounts of the same event. One focuses on the fact that God made man out of nothing--that is, his eternal spirit is not made from pre-existing material--and the other focuses on how the thing God shaped out of dirt became another speaking spirit in the Image of God when He breathed the breath of life into him.

Being created in the Image of God, another speaking spirit but in a material body, means we have the power to create our now and our future by deed and by word. We can speak things into existence, just like God and do it here on planet earth where we are the "gods" in charge.

Jesus cursed the fig tree and in Mark 11 He explained, "Have faith in God (literally-"have the faith of God")...I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours," verses 22-24.

Here Jesus explains how God gets anything done. God's faith is the power behind the Word Who He then speaks and Who then brings into existence the things He has spoken. In other words, Jesus said, "Do what God does. Apply your faith through your words and you shall have what you say when you say."

Back in Genesis 1 we see this principle in action. "And God said..." appears seven times. This is no coincidence as the Bible is very economical with words. Seven is the number of spiritual perfection--that "And God said..." is repeated seven times reiterates God's assertion that His creation was "very good." And it affirms the fact that the Word went out from His mouth and made what He said. In other words, God received what He said by action by His Word.

Isaiah 55:10-11, "As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, so is My Word that goes out from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it."

According to Jesus, this is the kind of speaking spirit which we've been given--the kind of speaking spirit that can speak things into existence when the words are spoken in faith--the very same kind of spirit modeled after God's Own. Essentially, we are god-class beings, created just a little lower than God Himself.

Hebrews 7:10 asserts that Levi gave the tithe offering to Melchizedek because "when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor." This verse is the second witness testifying that we were all breathed into Adam in the same moment Adam received his breath of life, otherwise how else could Levi be in his ancestor over 400 years before he was born?

God breathed into Adam his breath of life and the breaths of life for all humanity. Adam was sinless; we too were sinless in our potential sparks within Adam. If our spirits had been breathed into Adam sinful, then God could not have declared His creation "very good" because sin is obviously very bad. Conclusion: our pre-destiny is to belong to God, to be perfect and sinless as Adam was initially perfect and sinless because that is how we were originally breathed.

God has not predestined anyone to anything except to belong to Him, to be little "g" gods on planet earth and to live in joyous fellowship with Him.

God has truly given us free will. We can, and Adam did, choose something other than what God planned. Nobody is locked into anything; we always have a choice. We create our future by how we live now and the decisions we make now. If we belong to God, He walks alongside us nudging us to choose life, to choose obedience to Him, but He never forces us to do anything.

In Genesis 4, Cain contemplated murdering his brother because God accepted Abel's offering of fat portions from the firstborn of his flock and rejected Cain's offering of vegetables. God said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it," verses 6 & 7.

If Cain's future as a murderer had already been fixed, why would God bother with trying to guide him away from it? God cannot lie, Hebrews 6:18. If Cain had no possibility to choose a different course, God coming to him and trying to guide him toward a different course would be a form of lying. Including this story in the Bible would lead a sensible reader to conclude that we too have a choice, we are not locked into sinful actions. But, if we are locked in, then this story is also a lie for us. To imply to us that we, along with Cain, also might choose a different path from one which feels so overwhelming, as Cain must have felt overwhelmed with jealousy and envy, when we actually have no choice would be a very bad lie.

The story encourages us to recognize our god-like power of free will--think about what we are doing and choose, and choose well. This principle agrees with other "witnesses" from the Bible:

Deuteronomy 30:19, "...I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life..."

Joshua 24:15, "...choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord."

In Jeremiah 18 we read about Jeremiah's trip to the potter's house. "This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD: "Go down to the potter's house, and there I will give you My message." So I went down to the potter's house, and I saw him working at the wheel. But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him. Then the word of the LORD came to me: "O house of Israel, can I not do with you as this potter does?" declares the LORD," verses 1-5.

This is not the picture of a fixed future.

Anybody who has worked with clay will tell you, the clay has a role in how it will be shaped. Sometimes it refuses to be made into the thing the potter first desires and there is nothing else to do except mash it down, get the air bubbles out and make something entirely different from it. This is precisely what Jeremiah is describing happening here and what God says He intends to do with Israel.

The next verses are a series of "if/then" statements where God says, "If you do this, I will do that..." In these verses God specified how He would react when the clay refuses to be shaped as He intended.

These are not statements of a God who sees the future as a finished product. These are the statements of a God who intends to work alongside His creation shaping it and working with it. Together we achieve His good and love-filled objectives--albeit not precisely as He originally envisioned them.

Hezekiah was very ill and dying when Isaiah came to visit him, II Kings 20. God sent Isaiah to say, "This is what the LORD says: Put your house in order because you will die; you will not recover." Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the LORD, "Remember, O LORD, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in Your eyes." And Hezekiah wept bitterly," verses 1-3. Before Isaiah could get out of the building, God said to him, "Go back and tell Hezekiah...I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you...I will add fifteen years to your life," verses 5 & 6.

II Chronicles 32:24-26, "In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. He prayed to the LORD, who answered him and gave him a miraculous sign. But Hezekiah's heart was proud and he did not respond to the kindness shown him; therefore the Lord's wrath was on him and on Judah and Jerusalem. Then Hezekiah repented of the pride of his heart, as did the people of Jerusalem; therefore the LORD's wrath did not come upon them during the days of Hezekiah."

Hezekiah stated his case before God, God heard him and gave him what he wanted. Later, he became prideful and God thought He would have to punish him, but then he repented, so God didn't punish him.

Sounds like the present and the future are shaped by man and God together. God has a plan, He has a destiny He prefers for us, but we are free to reject it, if we so choose. God then moves on to "plan B" and has another go at us to see if we will submit to His will. At any point, if we do not submit to His will, He contemplates giving us a spanking or of just waiting for the consequences for our stupidity to come to fruition so that we'll cry out to Him from the pit we've gotten ourselves into. If we repent, He moves on to "plan C." And so it goes, God working with the clay, patiently, struggling to shape it into His Image in whatever version of His Image it will receive. Often, He finds the clay resistant, so He changes His tactics. But He always works toward His goals. But God never subverts our free will. He works His purposes by persuasion and being there for us when we hit bottom.

God encourages us to argue our case before Him, "Review the past for Me, let us argue the matter together; state the case for your innocence," Isaiah 43:26. If our destiny was fixed, there would be no point in arguing our case.

"Come now, let us reason together," says the LORD. "Though your sins be as scarlet they shall be white as snow, though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool. If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the best from the land; but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword," Isaiah 1:18 & 19.

"If (my emphasis) you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all His commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God..." Deuteronomy 28:1 & 2. Verses 3-13 list the blessings the obedient person will enjoy.

"However, if you do not obey the Lord your God and do not carefully follow all His commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you..." Deuteronomy 28:15. Verses 16-68 list the curses. In the following chapter Moses gave the people a history lesson and further guidance. Then in Deuteronomy 30:19 he said, "This day I call Heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. now choose life..."

It could be argued that the blessings were so grand and the curses so horrid that any person would logically choose life--even that the person given these two options would practically be forced to choose life, but this would be a specious argument. Adam had a similar choice, but only similar in that it would seem that choosing to obey God would be obviously good, especially to us arm-chair critics after the fact. But that's not what he did. Adam knew God intimately, he walked together with the Lord in the garden every evening, side by side, in a way that we in our sinful state cannot fully comprehend at present. Yet, he chose to disobey God. We always have a choice and if God is to be our Over-King, we must choose Him, choose Him as Lord and Savior, and choose to Him moment by moment, because after Adam's fall our default mode is satan as our over-king.

Jesus does not argue this point with satan during His temptation in Matthew 4. "Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said. "If you will bow down and worship me,"" verses 8 & 9. Adam gave over-kingship to satan when he disobeyed God and ate the fruit of the forbidden tree. Some of satan's nature entered Adam and all the potential lives he carried, all those breaths of life direct from God were ,infected with satan's sin nature. Now, any human child who is born of natural means carries the infection and it cannot even begin to be extracted until that child receives Jesus as Lord. This is the destiny Adam chose for us when he sinned. God did not choose it for us.

Jesus clearly said in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that He sent His Only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." The word "world" means "everybody" and the word "whosoever" means "anybody," there is no mention of "elect" or "predestined."

Peter said, "He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance," II Peter 3:9.

Jeremiah 29:11, "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

If God had predestined us to sin, then His creation would not have been good at any point. If God had predestined us to sin, then He would have actively created evil. God is not capable of this.

James 1:13-16 "When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone: but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don't be deceived, my dear brothers. Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the Heavenly Lights, Who does not change like shifting shadows."

"For the LORD is good and His Love endures forever; His faithfulness continues through all generations," Psalm 100:5.

The Ten Commandments testify to God's goodness and perfection. These commandments could never be written by human beings because we human beings want gods who sanction whatever bad behaviors we desire to pursue. Pagan gods have the same sinful ways as human beings, except they have super powers.

"The Word of the LORD came to Jonah son of Amittai: "Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before Me."...Now Nineveh was a great city and it took three days to go all through it. Jonah started into the city, going a day's journey, and he proclaimed: "Forty more days and Nineveh will be destroyed." The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth. When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust...When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, He had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction He had threatened," Jonah 1: 1 & 2; 3:3-6, 10.

So, yes, in a sense, God did change His mind because He decided not to do something He had originally planned. But in another sense, God did not change His mind because all along His purpose was to have the Ninevites behave properly. When He achieved that objective through Jonah's preaching, He didn't have to destroy them after all.

God's purposes is to retrieve as many human beings as will receive Him from the slave pits of sin. He has remained steadfast in this purpose ever since Adam first put us there.

Marilyn

Jonah 1:1 & 2 says, "The Word of the Lord came to Jonah son of Amittai:  "Go to the great city of Nineveh and preach against it, because its wickedness has come up before me."  

Jonah's reaction is to run away.  Why does he run away?  He runs away because he doesn't want Nineveh to repent, he wants them to get zapped.  When the great fish finally burps him up on the shore, God tells him again, "Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give you," Jonah 3:2.  

God says "preach against," which just simply means point out their sins and harangue them.  God didn't change His mind, He was giving Nineveh a chance to change their ways.  

Sincerely,

Marilyn