Expert: Jim Miller - 11/25/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hello and thankyou for taking my question. I would like to know if any of the early non-biblical christian writings indicate that they believed in the TRINITY. Thankyou

ANSWER: This is a bit out of my field, and I am not sure what you mean by "Trinity".  The term was first used by Theophilos of Antioch around AD 180, but the concept is expressed as early as the Gospel of Matthew baptism text (28:19), which was soon quoted in other early texts such as the Didache.  Any quote of that text could indicate a belief in the Trinity.  Perhaps you could clarify, what elements do you need to see together to call it belief in the Trinity?
Jim Miller

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: HI:

    Thankyou for answering my question. The reason I ask it is because I have been talking to two different people who are pastors.....both are telling me that there is no such thing as the Trinity that it was never taught in the early church that all three persons; father son HOly spirit were God but seperate at the time. Thats really what I mean by Trinity - IS God the Father,  God the Son and  God the Holy Spirit = are they all truely God and all truely seperate beings as well as one being - a mystery the human mind cant wrap itself around - but true none the less

Answer
Remember that in the early days the church had more important things to deal with than theoretical constructs like the Trinity.  These were people who lived with crucifixions happening on a regular basis.  Somehow they had to understand and explain the crucifixion of the one they believed was God's anointed.  Then there was the resurrection, the centerpiece of the proof that Jesus was indeed the chosen of God.  But to get there you had to believe in the resurrection, believe that the very idea wasn't ridiculous, or morbid, or obscene (they had stories about the reanimated dead like our "zombie" genre).  So, to prove that there was a resurrection, and the Resurrected Lord was completely functional, etc., you needed witnesses.  etc.  etc.
   Theory, such as the Trinity, could wait.  When they got around to it, the idea was formed to deal with the problem of the incarnate creator, Jesus.  In the gospels Jesus spoke to the Father in the 2nd person, about the Father in the 3rd person, and the Father spoke to the Son in the 2nd person and about him in the 3rd person.  Jesus also spoke of the Holy Spirit in the 3rd person, distinct from the Father, and in terms of personhood and volition.  But, you still had the belief that God was one, and there could only be one God -- otherwise you would be just another pagan cult.  So, the result is the idea that the three persons found in the gospels were one God.  The precise understanding of this is beyond human comprehension -- as is much about God.  But the idea underlies the whole drama of the incarnation, and the story of the gospels.
   I hope this is helpful,
Jim Miller