AboutClifford H. Readout, Jr. Expertise Expertise:
Preferred subject areas: Biblical doctrine, problem texts, and application
of Bible teachings in daily life. Willing to consider questions concerning
other aspects of Christianity, as well. Experience and qualifications:
Converted to Christianity in 1970 while a student at Indiana University;
active in Christian ministry since 1971; President, 1971 - 1973, then
Chaplain, 1973 - 1975 of a campus ministry at Indiana University; Director
of Campus Ministry for North Central Region of the U.S.A. and Canada, 1975 -
1976; director, dean, and teacher for a Bible College in Kaiserslautern,
Germany, 1977; Pastor of the same church since 1978; founder and director of
The Foundations Forum (Christian think tank), 1991 to present; District
Foreign Missionary Director, 1981-2000; District Superintendent, 2000-2009; Founding Coordinator of Friendship International, a ministry to
college and university students around the world, 1997 - 2001; Special
Advisor to Friendship International, 2001 to present; Secretary and member
of the Board of Trustees for a Graduate School of Theology, 1999 to present; Chairman of the Board of Directors and faculty member at the Apostolic Leadership Institute, 2000 to present;
internationally known and requested Bible teacher, ministering by missionary
and other official invitations in more than forty nations, and at least
thirty-three of the United States; and other minor functions. Husband to the same
wonderful lady since 1970, father of three college graduates, and one
delightful Down Syndrome son born in 1994.
Experience For best results, send your question directly to readout@gmail.com. Be sure to mention AllExperts.com in the subject.
See "Expertise" section.
What verses of what chapters, of what books, of the bible, answers/ addresses, the question?
When a Jew body would die, before the time of Jesus, what would happen to the Jews sole/spirit?
Are there things that Christians are not supposed to tell people about the bible?
Thank you in advance very much.
Allen
Answer Dear Allen,
You ask two questions:
The first asks for a listing of the Bible verses that pertain to what happened to the body, soul, and spirit of a Jewish person who died before the time of Jesus Christ.
The second asks if there are things about the Bible that Christians are not supposed to tell others.
Since the second question is the simplest and easiest to answer, let me answer it first, and get it out of the way.
No, there is nothing in the Bible or about it which Christians are prohibited from telling to other people. Neither is there any authority which would have the right to demand such secrecy. God has made His Word accessible to anyone who really wants to read or hear it.
The second question could take a long time if I were to answer it as thoroughly as possible. I won’t give you a compendium of all the Bible verses that can be used to answer the question, but I will give you a summary, with some references to support it. Much of this can be found in the answers I have written for others who asked similar questions about what happens after death. That will have to do. It will be longer than you think.
First, let me suggest that the following text is a good place to begin the answer:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Here are some significant facts from this text:
1. The word of God does make a distinction between soul and spirit.
2. It is not a distinction that is easy for men to determine, no more than it is easy for us to distinguish where bone ends and marrow begins, or to distinguish the difference between thoughts and intents.
3. If we are going to know the difference between soul and spirit, it will be through careful examination of the word of God, which makes the distinction.
What texts do we have that point to a difference? Too many for this email to list them all, but a few that are powerfully expressive:
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
This verse tells us what happens to the body and the spirit at death. The body returns to dust, since it was made from dust (the ground), but the spirit returns to God. Notice that there is no distinction between the spirit of the righteous and the spirit of the unrighteous. Regardless of the salvation state of the human being at death, the spirit returns to God. Job 19:25, and other texts, assure us that only what goes into the grave is what comes out. No text even hints that souls go to the grave, only the bodies. Matthew 27:52 is pretty specific in identifying what arises from the grave, and it is not “the saints” or “the souls of the saints,” but the bodies of the saints.
But man is more than body and spirit, in fact, man is a living soul, not the combination of body and spirit. The Hebrew of Genesis 2:7 (“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”) is stronger than the English reader might perceive. It really defines what a man is. If I restate the verse, using a punctuation more attune to the Hebrew meaning, you might see what is intended: “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became: a living soul.” That is, man came into being when God blew into the body the breath of life (spirit), and man is a living soul.
This is confirmed by a similar text in the New Testament:
1 Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
We also know this definition that man is a soul is accurate because it is the soul that is the focus of the salvation Christ died to purchase.
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins
From these texts I conclude that “spirit,” which is also mentioned as “the breath of life” (and so typified in John 20:22), can be defined as the life force from God that creates the soul and animates the body. When the body dies, the spirit returns to God, and the body begins the process of decaying back into the dust from which it was originally made.
I also conclude that “soul” is that which is intrinsically the human being, the sentience. This is commonly thought to have three primary aspects: mind (reasoning ability), will (volition), and emotion (sentiment). While the body dies and returns to dust and the spirit returns to God, the soul lives forever either in the presence of the Lord, or in the realm of the condemned.
In Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:27, and Luke 20:38 (look at the context, too) the Lord makes a very strong point that while it is irrefutable that the bodies of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were dead, that the men, themselves, were alive. Matthew 10:28 fully demonstrates that while many have power to kill the body, only God has the power to kill both body and soul in Hell (Gehenna, and the “second death”). Clearly, the soul does not die when the body does, in fact, unless God kills it (and no text says he will kill souls) it will live forever somewhere.
If you learn to search the Scriptures for yourself, and review all the pertinent texts, you may notice something interesting that many commentators miss. Prior to the resurrection of Jesus Christ recorded in the New Testament, any one, either righteous or unrighteous, Jew or Gentile, who dies is spoken of as going “down,” but after the resurrection of Jesus Christ recorded in the New Testament the righteous are always spoken of as going “up.”
The usual interpretation is that this is a result of the fulfilling of Psalms 68:18 as defined by Ephesians 4:8. That there is a temporary dwelling place for the souls of men is obvious. That it is not the grave is also obvious. Beside Ecclesiastes 12:7, 1 Corinthians 15 and other passages detail that there is a difference between the body and the soul, and what happens to each at death. The body that gets planted is not resurrected in the same form as it was planted. In the New Testament, the righteous who have died do not share the same dwelling place as the unrighteous, but all the bodies return to dust.
1 Corinthians 15:42-44 (context) is equally clear that resurrection applies to bodies, not souls, in fact, it dictates that we understand that it be the same bodies which are buried (sown, planted) that are resurrected, but in a changed state. The creating of entirely new bodies would not be a resurrection, but a re-creation. John 2:18-22 reveals even more. Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:27 assures us that the body of Jesus Christ went into the grave, but did not experience the normal decay process. It also dictates that His soul did not go into the grave, but into Hades/Sheol.
The only textual evidence relating to the state of the soul when it is in Hades is Luke 16’s testimony about Lazarus and the rich man.
Luke 16:19-31 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
The rich man died and went to Hades (the Greek word translated "hell" in this text), a place of fire and torment. Lazarus died and was taken to a place of comfort and "good things." Notice that there could have been no significant amount of time passed between the time of the rich man’s death and his awareness, because no significant time had passed for his five brothers who were still living.
Individuals in both places were aware of their surroundings, and of those of the other place: "they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." It seems obvious that some who were in the place of comfort would willingly go to give aid to those in Hades, and those in Hades would willingly move to the place of comfort. It is also evident that the two places are removed from each other by a great gulf which is impassable (fixed). Revelation 20:14 informs us that Hades will eventually be put into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna, or the place people think of by the name "Hell"). So Hades is not the permanent location of the unsaved dead.
It is unlikely that the story of Lazarus and the rich man was a parable, because Jesus Christ actually names one of the characters, something not done in any parable. I ask the question, “Was there really a beggar named Lazarus? If not, why did Jesus say there was? Why didn’t He simply say, “There was a certain rich man and a beggar,” in the same manner He did in every other parable? Regardless, parable or prophecy, the Lord never used falsehood to illustrate truth. And in His recounting of the story, souls in Hades and the other place, where Abraham was, were all conscious of their own state, and that of those in the other place.
In Luke 23:43, which takes place before the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the Lord Jesus told the repentant thief, who was a Jew, that he was going to die that very day, just as Christ was, but that he would be “with” Him in paradise that very day. [The language, “with me” is significant, and while there is neither time or space in this answer to include the scriptural facts about them, I will simply say that being “with Jesus” includes your being His guest and under His authority and protection.] “Paradise” is defined in Revelation 2:7; 22:2, 14, and also 2 Corinthians 12:4.
It also seems apparent that the limitations of “time” become meaningless to the soul once the body has died. I cannot help but wonder if Moses and Elijah exhibited any signs of the effects or limits of time when they appeared on the Mount of Transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-5 and Mark 9:22-8)?
There is another text which ought to be included in this particular study. It is a challenging text, but if treated with the respect God’s Word demands, reveals related truth. That text is 1 Samuel 28, the record of King Saul’s encounter with the woman at Endor who had a familiar spirit. It is necessary to understand that the narrator of God’s Word is God. He occasionally quotes the words of the characters in the story, even those of fools and enemies, but when He is not quoting, He is telling us what actually happened. (Because of my own pre-Christian history involved with familiar spirits, I find this event less confounding than it seems to be to some scholars.)
The Narrator does not lie, but tells the facts.
1 Samuel 28:12 “…the woman saw Samuel…”
1 Samuel 28:15 “And Samuel said to Saul,”
1 Samuel 28:16 “Then said Samuel…”
1 Samuel 28:19 “…to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me…”
I must make sure to state for the record that the woman did not “bring up Samuel.” She invoked the familiar spirit, and was completely surprised and fearful at the result! She did not expect Samuel, and when he appeared, she knew she was exposed and in mortal peril. She also lied to Saul about what she saw, and about her role in the event. The fact is that she had no power to “bring up” anything but the demon spirit to which she was in bondage. This incident is the record of Saul using the last possible means he had to provoke God into responding to him, the blasphemy of witchcraft. He did it, not because he believed such things had actual power, but because he knew it would surely provoke the Lord to anger and response.
The application of this event to the subject of the state of the soul after death is clear. Samuel’s body was dead and in the grave, but Samuel himself was not asleep. (The word “disquieted” does not mean “awakened,” but it does mean “agitated or provoked.” Neither would any human being or demon have the power to wake a soul if it were either unconscious or sleeping according to the plan and purpose of God.
I know some of this answer moves into the New Testament era, but not in a way that alters the facts of the afterlife for the Old Testament Jew. I hope it helps you some.
