Expert: Marilyn - 5/26/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hello and greetings Marilyn,

I have another question to ask you, and this concerns Revelations Chapter 5 from The Bible:

Revelation 5:

6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth.  7 He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.

who is the Lamb? who is the one sitting on the throne who the Lamb takes the scroll from?

People use this scripture to show that God is not Jesus and Jesus is not God.

I humbly thank you in advance Marilyn and thank you for all your help and patience with me.

ANSWER: Hello Junior;

Sorry I've taken so long to answer this question.

So what do these people say exactly?  I don't recall hearing this particular straw man before.

So, God can't use symbolism, is that it?

In the Old Testament, what is a lamb for?  When God sprang the Israelites from Egypt, the lamb's blood meant protection from the death angel. After the final plague the people left Egypt, were "baptized" in the Red Sea, the waters on both sides and God above, then "raised" to new life with God as their new King.  Passover is a picture for our lives as persons in the slave markets of the world, pawns of satan, slaves to sin. We hear about Jesus--the Israelites took the lambs into their homes and became acquainted with them; we discover He was slain to pay for our sin--they slew the lambs they'd come to love. We receive Jesus the Lamb as Lord by His shed Blood--they received God as their Lord through the blood of lambs. Jesus' Blood is placed on the doorposts of our hearts, the place where we live--they placed lambs' blood on their houses' doorposts. We are baptized--dunked in water, following Him into a figurative death and are figuratively raised to new life free of sin with Jesus as our King, similarly to the Israelites.

What, God isn't allowed to us symbolism both literally and figuratively?

When John the Baptist saw Jesus approaching, he announced to all within hearing, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world," John 1:29, "This is the One I meant when I said, 'A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that He might be revealed to Israel," verses 30 & 31.

Paul says quite plainly, "Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed." (Christ means simply, The Anointed One.)

And Peter says, "For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious Blood of Christ, a Lamb without blemish or defect."

Both Paul and Peter hearken back to the Passover and to every other lamb any Jew ever sacrificed in order to eventually receive forgiveness from sin when the True Lamb was finally offered.  If Jesus wasn't God, then He couldn't pay for sin because He couldn't have been perfect, He wouldn't have fulfilled the duty of the Lamb, to be perfect, innocent and clean. If Jesus isn't God because He's a Lamb, then what are we to do with the other claims He made and those made about Him?  

John 1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." So if God can't appear as a Lamb and can't use a lamb as a symbol, then is He also not allowed to literally BE the WORD of God Made Flesh? Are the actual WORDS of God not permitted to be a literal, real and actual Person of God? I thought we were talking about God here, a God who existed before we did, One we didn't make up.  If He's a god we made up then, yeah, sure He can't be a Lamb or the Word because if we make him up, we get to decide everything about him. If He's God, then we don't get to decide. If He's God He Will Be Who He Is and we're the ones who need to adjust.

What about Jesus' seven "I AM" statements? "I AM the Bread of Life," John 6:48; "I AM the Light of the World," John 8:12; "I AM the Gate," John 10:9; "I AM the Good Shepherd," John 10:14; "I AM the Resurrection and the Life," John 11:25; "I AM the Way the Truth & the Life," John 14:6; "I AM the True Vine," John 15:1. Do these also disqualify Him as a Person of God? How can God be all that stuff?  Well, He's God, that's how. We didn't make Him up--He Is Who He Is and we'd better get attitudes straightened out. If He isn't difficult to comprehend, then He's not much of a God is He?

God is described in Hebrew with various Names. Here's a short list: the Name "God" is the English version of the Name "Elohim." Elohim is a compound Name: El (Strength) + ohim (plural indicating a minimum of Three in One) (Faithfulness,) = Strength and Faithfulness; "YHWH," in English "Jehovah," which is "I AM"--"The Self Existent One Who Redeems"--"I AM THAT I AM;" "El Shaddai," usually translated "God Almighty," literally means "The Big Breasted One;" "El Olam" translated "God Eternal" literally means "The Wise One Who Keeps and Divides the Mysteries of Time and the Ages"--that's just a few of God's Names. In this world where a Lamb can't be a Person of God, then The Big Breasted One can't be God either.

People want to box God up into a tidy little cubby where He's down to a manageable size. Essentially, they want to make God into an idol and then mock and debunk Him. They can try, but when they go back to look for Him, He won't be there.   

I believe Jesus the Lamb is literally and figuratively true.

The picture of the Lamb is a portrait of Who He Is.

Let's say some person you know has a foul temper, eats way too much, often forgets to bathe and likes to walk around with a chip on his shoulder. You might paint a portrait of him as a pig. Your portrait would be literally and figuratively true because the pig portrait would describe this fellow succinctly and to the point in a manner everybody would understand immediately. Does that mean he's not Bob, or whatever his name is, a part of the Smith or Jones or whatever family?  No, it means Bob Smith/Jones is a human who acts like a pig. Or if you meet a lovely girl who moves with fabulous grace and you paint a portrait of her as a gazelle. Does that means she's not of the family she was born to? NO, and it would be ridiculous to suggest such a thing.

The idea that Jesus can't be a Person of God because He is portrayed in Revelation as a Lamb covered over with Wisdom and the Sevenfold Spirit of God is equally ridiculous.

Great to hear from you, keep the questions coming...

Sincerely,

Marilyn

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello Marilyn, You asked me a question for a change, Hahahaha.

Well you asked: "So what do these people say exactly?"

It's really kinda difficult, they say that "The Trinity" doctrine is false, but yet they believe that Yeshua(Jesus), YHWH,and The  Ruach haKodesh ( Holy Spirit ) are One, but only in spirit though, not as "persons"  or flesh, even though according to Bible Scripture, it clearly says that The Word Became Flesh (John 1: 14)

The things people will believe is sometimes utterly amazing to me, thats is why they lean to Revelations 5:7(7He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.), and say if Yeshua(Jesus) was YHWH (GOD) then why did He take the scroll from the right hand of him who sat one the throne.

Anyways, thats pretty much it, if you care to elaborate on this please do.

Hope you had an awesome Memorial weekend.

Junior


Answer
Hello Junior;

Usually I don't ask questioners any questions even when I want to because most people don't answer them. This can be kind of frustrating because sometimes questions aren't as clear as the questioner thinks they are. Sometimes it's almost like they think I already know the back story and everything they're thinking without them having to tell me. So, I'm delighted to discover that if I need to ask you a question, you'll answer it!

People will believe what they choose to believe, some will do it regardless of anything you might say, regardless of how bad they crash into a pit of hell on earth or what the Lord might do. A person determined not to believe can be thrown off his horse and blinded and figure some explanation that eliminates God from the picture if they're determined not to believe. Once I told a friend my testimony, crashing and burning in a pit of hell, totally lacking in self-esteem, beat up by my husband, my son beat up, broke, no car and the Lord retrieved me. She said, "Naw, you did all that yourself."  HA NO WAY. If I could have retrieved myself I wouldn't have ended up there.  But she didn't want to believe it. I planted the seed, maybe the Lord can use it someday. Usually we're just the seed men. Once in awhile we might get to be the harvester, but generally no. And the Holy Spirit can use your words some dark night after you have been long forgotten.

Ah, so the real booger is the Trinity. That's a big one for some people. Here's my favorite proof on the Trinity:

Paul tells us that the universe testifies to us about God:
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--His eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse," Romans 1:20.

Therefore, we can look to the material universe and discover God, even if we have no Bible. What do we know about the material universe?

The universe has three qualities of three each: Time, space and matter.

Time is one thing yet is three: past, present, future
Space is one thing, yet three: height, width, depth
Matter is one thing, yet three: solid, liquid, gas

We live in a trinity of trinities.

In Genesis 1 God says, "Light be," and light was. Scientists tell us that everything was created either directly or indirectly from light. This stands to reason, for I John 1:5 says, "God is Light."

Jesus declared Himself the Light of the World, John 8:12. According to Genesis 1, God created the universe through the power of His Word. So let's look at light.

Light is one substance with three properties: actinic, light that is neither seen nor felt, the Father; luminiferous, light that is both seen and felt, the Son or the Word; and calorific, light that is felt but not seen, the Holy Spirit. We know light has these three properties even from our own experiences. Anyone who is sunburned on a cloudy day knows actinic light exists. Anyone who is dazzled in the noonday sun knows luminiferous light exists. Anyone inside a tent, trying to sleep as the sun comes up knows calorific light exists.

Light has a dual nature, it is both particle and wave. After the Word came to earth and took on Human form and was Named Jesus, God became both Man and Spirit. He will be both Man and Spirit into eternity.

Water droplets in the sky after the rain split light into the rainbow. We delight in it, but it too shows us God. The fruit of the Spirit, that is the very Nature of God, is nine, Galatians 5:22. There are nine colors in light, 7 visible and 2 invisible.  

God is Light. Sunlight testifies to us about God, demonstrating within its being how the Trinity can be One and yet three distinct Beings. It shows us the very nature of God, that He is Lovely and Good. If we contemplate sunlight, we realize everything good comes from God; without the sun, the earth would be a lifeless rock. Without God, we too are lifeless. Sunlight also shows us God's awesome power, it never wanes, never gets tired, never ceases.

We are created in the Image of God. We are also three in one beings. "May God Himself, the God of Peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless..." I Thessalonians 5:23. The human spirit is the spark God breathed into the mud-body, the adamah, Adam. The verse there actually says God breathed into Adam the breath of LIVES, plural, Genesis 2:7.

This is how everyone is born infected with sin, because when Adam sinned, the sin nature entered every breath of life he carried. And this is how Jesus can be born sinless, His Breath of Life, literally God's Word spoken into Mary--God's Own Divine Being--entered human flesh, Mary's egg, Hebrews 1:3, John 1. A woman's egg is not infected with sin, it is only the breath of life carried in the sperm that is infected with sin.

The breath of life God breathed into Adam is spirit, the human spirit lives in a body and interacts with the material world and with other humans through the soul, which is composed of the mind, will and emotions.

A computer gives a rough idea of the trinity of the human being. A computer is composed of the hardware, the body; the software, the soul; and the operating system, the spirit. All three are needed in order to have a useful computer, yet each piece is separate.

When one realizes we're already accepting the triune nature of the universe, light and even our own beings, the Trinity of God is not quite so difficult.

I hope you also had an awesome Memorial Day weekend. Our daughter, whom we haven't seen in a year, came and we had our whole family together. It was very nice.

Hope this helps. And keep up the good fight! You make a difference, even on those days when you feel you just spun your wheels.

Sincerely,

Marilyn