Expert: Marilyn - 6/9/2009

Question
Greetings Marilyn,

I hope all things are well with you, I have yet another piece of material that I was hoping you could help me with, this individual wrote something to me and I am in ned of help answering his post to me, I have pasted his post to me and if you could please help me in answering him I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you in advance Marilyn for all your help

Junior

Here is this individuals post to me:


A Mental (and perhaps even visual) exercise.....

Genesis 37:21
And Reuben heard it, and he delivered him out of their hands; and said, Let us not kill him.

(Q) Who said "let us" not kill him?
(Q) Who was he talking to?

Genesis 35
3
And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went.

(Q) Who said "let us" arise...?
(Q) Who was he talking to?

Genesis 31
44
Now therefore come thou, let us make a covenant, I and thou; and let it be for a witness between me and thee.

(Q) Who said "let us" make a covenant?
(Q) Who was he talking to?

Synopsis: When a speaker of a statement is actually identifed....is it not obvious that he is speaking to someone other than himself?

Why is it then, that with so many Biblical examples of this principle, someone will choose to believe differently in THIS example:

Genesis 1:26
........, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Oshe: The speaker was IDENTIFIED:

The whole verse says:

Genesis 1:26
And ****GOD SAID*****, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Just like Reuben, Jacob, and Laban......GOD was also talking to someone else.

In the aforementioned examples, if someone told you or tried to convince you that Jacob, Laban, and/or Reuben were talking to THEMSELF when they said "Let us".....?

What would you say?

Honestly?

Answer
Correction:  The Koran began to be written in the 700's AD

Hello Junior!

First example: Jacob's son Reuben

Reuben is with his brothers who've had it with Joseph's smug, know-it-all, higher-than-thou attitude. He's talking to his brothers. He is part of a group, speaking to the rest of the group.

Second example: Jacob commanded to go to Bethel

"Jacob said to his household," Genesis 35:2. The man is talking to his household. He's the head of the household; he's speaking to the rest of the group.

Third example: Laban, Jacob's slimy father-in-law

Laban is speaking to Jacob. Jacob is living within Laban's family group. Laban is the head of the group; he's speaking to Jacob, a member of his family group.

Fourth example: God

Ok, we've established that in each example the speaker is speaking to one or more of the members of his group. Oshe is correct, there is a pattern going on here. God is ALSO speaking to the rest of His group. This would be God the Father, the Mastermind and Head of the Group of 3, speaking to the Son, who is the Word and to the Holy Spirit.

Oshe proposes God is speaking to someone else, but does Oshe explain who that someone else might be? Since human beings aren't yet created, God obviously isn't speaking to humans. Does Oshe think God goes around explaining to the animals what He plans to do? Maybe aliens? Maybe God isn't really the Only Sentient, All Powerful, Omniscient Being in the vicinity, maybe He has to talk it over with other gods? Is that what Oshe proposes?

The Name for God in Genesis 1:1 is Elohim. This Name is translated "God" in English texts. Elohim is a latent plural Name--this means the Name indicates a minimum of Three in One. The Name means literally Strength & Faithfulness. My old Scofield Bible explained that "ohim" is the plural form of "elah" or "allah" from which Muslims derive their god's name. Muslims have argued to me that Elohim is a latent plural Name in order to indicate honor and respect, not intended to literally BE latent plural. So sorry, but Elohim is NOT a latent plural Name in order to show honor and respect to God. If that were the case, Elohim would be a Name imposed by humans to achieve that objective. So sorry, but Elohim is a uniquely Hebrew Name and has no equivalent in any other language. The Name God assigns Himself--NOT a Name assigned Him by humans.

The appearance of Elohim in Genesis 1:1 when no human beings exist indicates that Genesis 1 and the first few verses of chapter 2 are written from God's point of view. No human beings observed any of the events described in Genesis 1--humans were created yet.

Though simple enough for a child to understand, Genesis 1 is scientifically sound. The first day, the "big bang," is the creation of light; after that, the universe went "dark" until some time later when the stars began to shine on day 4; dinosaurs are mentioned in the Hebrew, Genesis 1:21, (variously translated "dragons," "sea monsters"...etc.), though why the dinosaurs were made extinct before the creation of mammals, verses 24- , Genesis 1 does not tell; humans show up on the scene...exactly as science testifies based on evidence found in the earth and in the sky. The extinction of dinosaurs is not important to the story, the point of the story is that God made it all, He created it in progressive stages and He thought it was all "very good."

Moses is accredited as the writer of the Torah, the first five books of the Old Testament. He wrote what God told him to write. He does not need to emphasize God's greatness with some kind of misleading Name. God's Names in the OT are always precise, simple, elegant and to the point--never hyper-contrived, over-blown or haughty--always truthful without hyperbole. God never goes for that; it's completely unnecessary and not in His Nature. To have a hyperbolic Name in Genesis 1:1 would be completely out of character with every other Name of God found in the Old Testament. If the Bible is anything, it is consistent and agreeable with itself at all times--especially about God.

The Koran, or however the name of the Muslim book is spelled, was written beginning in 1700's AD. The Bible was written long before that. The Koran sets itself up as the authority supplanting the Bible as God's final Word, yet the Koran itself insists that the Bible is God's Word also.

Ok, so if this is true, then the Bible and the Koran should agree on everything of importance. The problem is, the Bible and the Koran don't agree about anything of importance. The Bible consistently describes a Three in One God, the Bible values women equally with men, the Bible insists God has Sons, that He loves prodigals...etc. etc. Bible prophecies have come true while none of Mohammed's prophecies have come true...the list is quite extensive and if you like I can send you my comparative study for future reference.

Since the Koran itself declares that the Bible is also the Word of God; since the Koran does not agree with the Bible on anything of significance; since the Bible clearly states that a prophet whose prophecies do not come true is no prophet, I conclude that the Koran is NOT God's Word and is NOT the final word on anything God said. The Koran testifies against itself and condemns itself. Therefore, anything the Koran says respecting God and His Way is not Truth.

Persons who cannot accept the Triune God as a Real Entity must examine their concept of God. Ray Comfort describes such persons as those who erect idol(s), that is man-made images of god or gods, and then debunks those idol(s). This is a bogus pursuit.

We've already established that Allah is a man-made god. Thus, any attempt to debunk Elohim using an idol named Allah is a worthless pursuit.

The fact that God is beyond comprehension only confirms to my mind that He is God. If He is easily comprehended, He's not much of a God is He?

Sincerely,

Marilyn