Expert: Pastor Don Carpenter - 7/30/2009

Question
Greetings Pastor Don Carpenter,

Recently on a website we have been having a friendly debate on a subject called "Once Saved Always Saved" Im going to post something from someone who opposes this doctrine, but first, I would like to ask if you believe in this doctrine, and why do you believe it, or if you dont believe in it, then why.

I humbly thank you in advance, and here is the posting from the individual that opposes O.S.A.S(Once saved always saved) Junior

Here it is:

We were speaking of freedom of choice and how, if the OSAS is true, as the proponents say, and you cannot turn from YHWH then you no longer have that freedom... I know that sounds silly but just as sure as you have a choice to accept YHWH, You also have the choice to reject HIM... Even after you have known of HIS TRUTH the option still remains because HE ALLOWS you to make those choices either to your betterment or to your detriment...

(All my personal comments are in parenthesis)

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

(In the face of OSAS this passage says that in the latter days some shall depart from the FAITH doesn't apply... The argument by the OSAS group is that they were never saved, however that is nullified because the script clearly and plainly says they will DEPART FROM THE FAITH... How can one depart form something which they have never had or attained??? It's like saying you're going to quit drinking alcohol, although you have never tasted it in your life... )

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

(Again here there will be a falling away first then the man of sin will be revealed... the falling away is key however because in order to fall away, you must first have attained something from which to fall... You cannot fall from a mountaintop if you've never attained it... the OSAS group again says that these were not saved or that this has nothing to do with the topic but but both of those are errant doctrines built on strawman arguments...)


Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way SHALL SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

(Notice it says you shall save his [SOUL] not his body from death...now this brother has erred from the TRUTH... so that means that at some point he did indeed have and know the TRUTH... and someone, brother or sister converted him from his error... In order to correct him from an error he must have had made one and if it was not erring from the TRUTH, why is that exactly what the script says happened???)


Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and HOLD FAST, and REPENT. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

(First they are admonished to HOLD FAST AND REPENT... if you are to hold fast then there is a chance you may slip away...IMO...)


Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

HE THAT OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(If YAHushuah will not blot out the name of him that overcometh, HE WILL blot out the names of those that do not overcome...There are two books in Shamayim, the BOOK of LIFE and the LAMB's BOOK of LIFE everyone who has been born is in one, only those that overcomes will be found in the other... the rest shall be "blotted out" just as YAHushuah says...)

Answer
Hi Junior,

Thanks for this great question.  I absolutely believe that once Jesus saves me, I am saved forever! My salvation does not depend upon my ability to earn it through works, it comes because Jesus paid for it and I accepted that payment by faith.  Anything less is works salvation, and it is condemned by scriptures.  Let me briefly deal with some of the points in this post.

Let us view his quotation from 1 Timothy in context.

1Ti 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4  For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


The term THE FAITH in the Greek means that set of orthodox doctrines originally taught by Jesus and the Apostles.  Paul was not saying that people would depart from saving faith and lose their salvation, but rather that they would change the basic doctrines of the Bible and replace it with false doctrine.  THE FAITH then is a theological position, not salvation.  Paul was actually predicting the beginning of the Roman Catholic Church... how they would change Biblical doctrines (the faith) and replace it with traditions that would forbid priests to marry and forbid the eating of mean on Friday and other traditions not found in scripture.

Other citations showing that death can come from sin... even believers can die early if they choose to sin, but that will not mean that they are no longer saved.

Works centered theologians love to use the overcoming passages in Revelation 2 and 3 to allege that one can lose salvation... let us see what it takes to be an overcomer:

1 John 5:4  For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:5  Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


According to scripture, anyone who has trusted in Jesus as Savior is ALREADY an overcomer, and hence will overcome!

Remember that it is unbelief that condemns and belief that changes all this.

John 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

At what point is one granted eternal life?  At the point of belief!  How long is eternal life?  Eternal life is forever... therefore it is not in line with scripture that once one receives eternal life, somehow that eternal life is no longer eternal.

Remember, we come to Christ because no act of the law can save us... the law can only condemn us and show us that we need salvation apart from the law.

Romans 3:19  Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:21  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Romans 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Romans 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Romans 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Now since we cannot be saved by works in the first place, it is impossible to think that we are kept by works when works could not save us in the first place.

Gal 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 3:1  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

God takes on the responsibility of keeping us saved... not us!

Philippians 1:6  Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

John 10:27  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:29  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 10:30  I and my Father are one.


You are not a strong enough sinner to break the grip of Jesus on your life once He has you!

There is not one person in the Bible who was truly saved that lost their salvation.  God's word tells us that those that leave the truth never had it in the first place.

1 John 2:19  They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

I could write volumes... but I hope that this is sufficient Biblical overview to back my position.  I hope that this helps you.

In Christ
Pastor Don