Expert: Messianic Rabbi Yochanan Levine - 7/30/2009

Question
QUESTION: Greetings John,

I have a question for you, we are having this debate (friendly one) about a doctrine called "Once saved always saved" I am not sure that you've heard of it, but am assuming you have, Im going to post someone's post who is against this doctrine, but what I am asking of you is for your opinion of this doctrine, if you feel it is correct or not, and then if you agree with the doctrine, could you please tell me why, and if not also if you could elaborate on why not.

I humbly thank you in advance.

Here is one person's view on why the doctrine cannot be true:

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

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Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

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Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way SHALL SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

(Notice it says you shall save his [SOUL] not his body from death...)

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Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and HOLD FAST, and REPENT. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

HE THAT OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(If YAHushuah will not blot out the name of him that overcometh, HE WILL blot out the names of those that do not overcome...)

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But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the UNBELIEVERS.

But the fearful, and UNBELIEVING, and the abominable, and murderers, and %#&@$!mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, SHALL HAVE THEIR PART IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE: which is the second death.

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Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, BECAUSE THOU HAST LEFT THY FIRST LOVE.

Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, AND REPENT, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, EXCEPT THOU REPENT.

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Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Temptation + sin = death


There are too many scripts that disprove the OSAS(once saved always saved) doctrine, those that believe it, do so according to their own understanding not scriptural TRUTH...


ANSWER: Hi Junior,

The Doctrine of Eternal Security is a very widespread belief and a generally accepted article of faith among Baptists (the second largest Christian denomination). Many other Christians accept this doctrine as well.

In my opinion this is what the New Testament teaches.

--- Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

This has nothing to do with it. The Doctrine of Eternal Security is biblical and has been accepted by Christians since the earliest days of Church history (at least as far back as Augustine demonstratively and to Jesus and the New Testament authors textually).

--- Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Again, nothing to do with the topic. This is a reference to Rev. 3:14-19 (and Hebrews 11) and the coming of Antichrist. Prior to the appearance of the Antichrist the Church will become (is now becoming) lukewarm and hypocritical. This biblical doctrine demands a humility absent in the Church of the Last Days.

The End Time Church proclaims: "...  I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing..."

Those who embrace this biblical doctrine on the other hand say, I can do nothing in my own power. My only hope is in God and His undeserved mercy and grace.

Whoever wrote this piece is not showing any biblical evidence for his opinion. He/she is merely citing condemnations without context or reference.

What happens at salvation?

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

We are adopted into the family of God.

The Prodigal Son is our example. Some Christians remain faithful and receive blessings accordingly. Others, like the Prodigal, fall into sin and for a time leave God's fellowship. They lose the blessings of faithful service and fellowship but they remain part of the Family of God. Like the father in this parable, the Heavenly Father will NEVER abandon His children and in love he urges us to return.

God has called us unto salvation by His Will and His Grace.

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

God does not make mistakes. God knows how our Christian walk will go and He calls us into the Family of God anyway. Those adopted into the family of God are eternally secure.

John 18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
9 That the saying might be fulfilled, which he spake, Of them which thou gavest me have I lost none.

If a single saved person EVER lost or loses his or her salvation then Jesus would be a liar: Of them which thou gavest me have I lost NONE [save Judas].

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

People routinely cheapen salvation by insisting that they somehow deserve it. They claim they are good enough, they refrain from sin enough, they attend services and Bible studies enough, they stay faithful enough and so on. But here Jesus is clear that God chose us. We did not chose Him. We are not saved due to our works and we can not possibly stay saved through our efforts.

Paul makes this even clearer:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Not of works:

Maintaining faith is work.
Following Christ is work.
Being "good" is work.
Saying no to sin is work.

IF we have remained faithful, lived good Christian lives etc. and thereby got or stayed saved then we have something of which to boast.

One might say, I wanted to drink but didn't. Wanted to have an affair but didn't. Wanted to steal but didn't etc. and because I didn't I stayed saved. Had I yielded to my desires I would have lost my salvation.

But what does the Word say?

"Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Salvation is God's gift. Utterly undeserved.

That's tough on the ego! We want to deserve it. To earn it. Accepting this biblical doctrine requires humility.

BUT... If one could be righteous enough to be or stay saved then Jesus would not have needed to give his life.

To God be ALL the glory.

Hope this helps,

~ Pastor John

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello John,

And thankyou for responding so quickly and thoroughly, it was very informative.

But if I could I would like to add to this by including some more material from one who opposes the Eternal Security doctrine, I am seeking a small synopsis from you if you could, here it is.

We were speaking of freedom of choice and how, if the OSAS is true, as the proponents say, and you cannot turn from YHWH then you no longer have that freedom... I know that sounds silly but just as sure as you have a choice to accept YHWH, You also have the choice to reject HIM... Even after you have known of HIS TRUTH the option still remains because HE ALLOWS you to make those choices either to your betterment or to your detriment...

(All my personal comments are in parenthesis)

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times SOME SHALL DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

(In the face of OSAS this passage says that in the latter days some shall depart from the FAITH doesn't apply... The argument by the OSAS group is that they were never saved, however that is nullified because the script clearly and plainly says they will DEPART FROM THE FAITH... How can one depart form something which they have never had or attained??? It's like saying you're going to quit drinking alcohol, although you have never tasted it in your life... )

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

(Again here there will be a falling away first then the man of sin will be revealed... the falling away is key however because in order to fall away, you must first have attained something from which to fall... You cannot fall from a mountaintop if you've never attained it... the OSAS group again says that these were not saved or that this has nothing to do with the topic but but both of those are errant doctrines built on strawman arguments...)


Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;

Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way SHALL SAVE A SOUL FROM DEATH, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

(Notice it says you shall save his [SOUL] not his body from death...now this brother has erred from the TRUTH... so that means that at some point he did indeed have and know the TRUTH... and someone, brother or sister converted him from his error... In order to correct him from an error he must have had made one and if it was not erring from the TRUTH, why is that exactly what the script says happened???)


Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and HOLD FAST, and REPENT. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

(First they are admonished to HOLD FAST AND REPENT... if you are to hold fast then there is a chance you may slip away...IMO...)


Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

HE THAT OVERCOMETH, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

(If YAHushuah will not blot out the name of him that overcometh, HE WILL blot out the names of those that do not overcome...There are two books in Shamayim, the BOOK of LIFE and the LAMB's BOOK of LIFE everyone who has been born is in one, only those that overcomes will be found in the other... the rest shall be "blotted out" just as YAHushuah says...)

I humbly thank you in advance, Junior

Answer
I already addressed this question.

Once one is adopted into God's family one becomes part of the family.

Can you ever truly leave your birth family? Would you want to?

In all likelihood anyone who would want to throw away such a priceless gift never possessed it in the first place. I can see people falling into sin, loosing faith, etc. but wanting to renounce salvation? Its unthinkable for one who been saved.

Again, I see no real scriptural discussion here of this issue, only opinion and unrelated paraphrases.

Rather than sending rambling discussions like this, if you have some question about a verse send me that verse and I'll be glad to comment. If you have a clearly defined question send that, but hoping into other peoples conversations mid-thought is not the best way to address this.

Or let me know where this group is and perhaps I'll join it and answer questions more directly.

Maranatha