Expert: Messianic Rabbi Yochanan Levine - 9/27/2009

Question
Shaom,
Actually the first statements I made were not ment for that topic but its all alright its a good answer you gave to it.

  I would like to begin by the quotation from the Quran: Sura Al imran chp.3 v.64 which says:

'Say O' Jews and Christains, come to common terms as between us and you, [that is] we should worship none but Almighty God[Allah]and we should associate no partners to Him[in woship]...if they turn away, say that you bear witness that we are among those that submit their will to God Almighty[Allah].'

Your statement;
'There are many such verses. In my opinion none of them teach the deity of Jesus nor the Trinity, but I understand how they are interpreted this way and those who do so are still accepted by the One God because they come to Him through Y'shua in sincere faith.'
The book of Exodus chp.30 v.7-8 and Deuteronomy chp.5 v.8-9 gives no other way to interprete Trinity, and the concept if you clearly understand it, in no way refer to One God.
I still give you the quotation from the Quran in Sura Maida chp.5 v.73 that 'They blaspheme those who say trinity, for our Lord is one God.'

Your statement; 'Al Qur'an is a deceiving, plagiarized work that is in direct opposition with the real Scriptures of God (the Bible). I have no interest in writing a commentary on it, and if I did you would not like what I would write.'
Well I don't think you have actually have any knowledge about the Quran, many non muslims have never made any effort, not a single, in trying to know the actual message of the Quran; they just pick from the breeze misconceptions and false allegations put on the Quran and Islam especially by the western media because of world politics. And you also happen to fall into that category.
I am not suprised if you call the Quraan decieving and in opposition to the Bible, it is obvious; you are a christain scholar and have been teaching and practising your religion for many years maybe since childhood, even I would not just say 'oh my religion is wrong' after all that faith that you gave, you get what I am saying; we do have our differences but many are just mere misconceptions laid by people their own selfish reasons and like I said I have not come here to fight,or force anyone in Islam, the Quran says;
'Say O' Jews and Christains, come to common terms as between us and you, [that is] we should worship none but Almighty God[Allah]and we should associate no partners to Him[in woship]...if they turn away, say that you bear witness that we are among those that submit their will to God Almighty[Allah].'

So if I am wrong I should change, if you are wrong you should change, its optional. I have met many non muslims and christains as well that when you say I am a muslim and this is Islam, what they first see is a direct enemy because their minds is full of misconceptions about Islam; I am not saying you are like them, but even if you are well I would like you to know that my religion is a religion of peace; that is Islam. So lets put all that aside and have a peaceful talk about the scriptures.  

Your statement;
Allah is a false pagan god, one of 360 worshiped by Muhammad's family and redesigned through the edge of the sword to steal the blessings of Abraham, deceive the world and bring about spiritual chaos, darkness and slavery.

Firstly Allah is no other god but God Almighty, the God of prophet Abraham Whom he[Abraham] prayed to as in Genesis chp.17 v.3; God of prophet Moses and Aaron Whom they both worshipped as in the book of Numbers chp.20 v.6; God of prophet Joshua Whom he worshipped[Joshua chp.5 v.14] and the God that prophet Jesus[PBUH] worshipped as mentioned in the book of Matthew chp.26 v.39
And also thesame God Almighty mentioned by Jesus[PBUH] when he was asked 'which is the first of the commandements' in Mark 12:29
Hear O Israel; The Lord our God is one God.'

From the English Bible, edited by Rev. C. I. Scofield,D.D., with his Bible Commentary· This Doctor of Divinity is well respected among the Bible Scholars of the Christian world. He is backed in his "NEW AND IMPROVED EDITION" of this translation by a galaxy of eight other D.D.'s:

Rev. Henry G. Weston, D.D., LL.D., President Crozer Theological jeminary.
Rev. W. G. Moorehead, D.D., President Xenia (U.I,) Theological Seminary.
Rev. lames M. Gray, D.D., President Moody Bible Institute.
Rev. Elmore Harris, D.D., President Toronto Bible Institute.
Rev. William !. Erdman, D.D., Author "The Gospel of John," etc.
Rev. Arthur T. Pierson, D.D., Author, Editor, Teacher, etc.
Rev. William L. Pettingill, D.D., Author, Editor, Teacher.
Arno C. Gaebelein, Author "Harmoney of Prophetic Word," etc.
He[Rev. Scofield] in his bible commentary writes 'ELOHIM' EL, ELAH or ALAH and in Arabic it is written as 'ALLAH.' Even Rev. Scofield writes Allah as Alah which is thesame,also in the bible in Matthew 27:46 & Mark 15:34; 'Eli Eli lama sabachthani' in Hebrew, when translated into Arabic is 'Allah Allah lama taraktani'[i.e so to say, Oh God Oh God why has thou forsaken me? in english].  so your issue of 'Allah' being a pegan god and so on, I don't know where you got that history from, its even there in the Bible if you read it correctly.

The Quran says about Allah in sura ikhlas chp.112 v.1-4;
Say He is Allah One and Only(1)
[Allah] the absolute and eternal(2)
He begets not nor He is begotten(3)
There is nothing like Him(4)  similar to
Exodus 30:7-8 & Deuteronomy 5:8-9
Allah is not a false pagan god, and is not one of the 360 whorshiped by muhammad's family you did make any real research on that. Allah[SWT] is the Lord of all prophets [right from Adam], and Lord of the heavens and the earth with all that is in it.

I would like to end my talk with the quotation from the Quran: Sura Al imran chp.3 v.64 which says:

'Say O' Jews and Christains, come to common terms as between us and you, [that is] we should worship none but Almighty God[Allah]and we should associate no partners to Him[in woship]...if they turn away, say that you bear witness that we are among those that submit their will to God Almighty[Allah].'  

Answer
Hi Isa,

You: The book of Exodus chp.30 v.7-8 and Deuteronomy chp.5 v.8-9 gives no other way to interprete Trinity, and the concept if you clearly understand it, in no way refer to One God.

God's Will is not revealed by any single verse but by the ponderousness of them all. We also read this:

Micah 6: 6 How shall I come before HaShem, and bow myself before the high God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?
7 Will HaShem be pleased with thousands of rams, [or] with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my firstborn for my disobedience, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8 He has showed you, man, what is good; and what does HaShem require of you, but to do justly, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

The determination of both the Hebrew and the Christian Scriptures is that ALL fall short of God's glory, that NONE are pure in His sight and so on.

God's Mercy is bestowed upon whomever He chooses to bestow it. As we are taught, we can know whom God blesses by the fruit the produce (Matt 7:16). Many Nicene Christians (i.e. those who embrace the Nicean Creed) produce wonderful fruit. Islam produces death, destruction, enslavement, poverty and the genocide of the Jews.

You: ...I still give you the quotation from the Quran in Sura Maida chp.5 v.73 that 'They blaspheme those who say trinity, for our Lord is one God.'

And I still don't care what al Qu'ran says on any subject. It is not the Word of God (and yes I have studied it in some detail).

Both the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures are far older and are inspired by God. Al Qu'ran is a plagiarized work without divine inspiration.

I understand the New Testament in the Light of the Older Hebrew Testament (not the other way around).

You: Well I don't think you have actually have any knowledge about the Quran, many non muslims have never made any effort, not a single, in trying to know the actual message of the Quran; they just pick from the breeze misconceptions and false allegations put on the Quran and Islam especially by the western media because of world politics. And you also happen to fall into that category.

I can completely understand why you would say that. In many if not most cases that would be true. In my case it is not. I have studied al Qur'an and an al Hadith in depth.

You: I am not suprised if you call the Quraan decieving and in opposition to the Bible, it is obvious; you are a christain scholar and have been teaching and practising your religion for many years maybe since childhood, even I would not just say 'oh my religion is wrong' after all that faith that you gave, you get what I am saying; we do have our differences but many are just mere misconceptions laid by people their own selfish reasons and like I said I have not come here to fight,or force anyone in Islam, the Quran says;

Again, I can completely understand why you would say that. In many if not most cases that would be true. In my case it is not.

I was raised a Christian (Missionary Baptist) however I have devoted my life to seeking God in countless religions. I have reverted to Islam (said shahada and given myself to it completely), taught classes in Islam at the majid, lead public events for our masjid at area community centers, gone on Muslim retreats, been interviewed on a few occasions as a representative of the masjid etc. I left Islam after learning the truth about al ikhwan and about what is going on from highly respected, well placed imams.

My main masjid was a traditional Wahabi Sunni masjid. I also have spent a lot of time with Sufis. Unlike most in the West, I know whereof I speak when it comes to religion, including Islam.

I have also converted into various branches of Hinduism, Sikhism, and other religions and gained various levels of recognition. One of my ordinations is in Interfaith Counseling. Again, I know what al Qur'an and al Hadith teach and I reject them as being opposed to the One True God and destructive to the human race. If your intention here is to revert me it will never work.

You: ...I would like you to know that my religion is a religion of peace; that is Islam.

That is taquiya as we both know. "Islam" only means peace for those who "submit" (the primary meaning). For all others it means persecution, derogation, slavery and death.

You: So lets put all that aside and have a peaceful talk about the scriptures.

My primary reason for volunteering here is to answer question by sincere people. I am willing to discuss whatever you wish however I know the deen and the ummah and will never again revert.

Were it possible to remove the deen from the ummah and remove sharia I might consider returning. There is much good in the deen of Islam. However like milk that has been tasted by a serpent, the deen is irreparably polluted by the ummah and sharia and these three can not be separated.

You: Firstly Allah is no other god but God Almighty, the God of prophet Abraham Whom he[Abraham] prayed to as in Genesis chp.17 v.3; God of prophet Moses and Aaron Whom they both worshipped as in the book of Numbers chp.20 v.6; God of prophet Joshua Whom he worshipped[Joshua chp.5 v.14] and the God that prophet Jesus[PBUH] worshipped as mentioned in the book of Matthew chp.26 v.39
And also thesame God Almighty mentioned by Jesus[PBUH] when he was asked 'which is the first of the commandements' in Mark 12:29
Hear O Israel; The Lord our God is one God.'

According to Islam.
The God of Ishmael was the same God worshiped by those you mention. Nowhere in the Bible is Elohim (chp.17 v.3), HaShem ([Joshua chp.5 v.14]) nor Theos (Mark 12:29) referred to as Allah.

The word "Allah" (its not a name) simply means "God." The God of Israel has a proper Name. The fact that Islam does not use God's Name does not mean Allah is not HaShem (neither do most Christians nor the Christian Bible use the Name, Theo is also a title that just means "god"), but it is significant that Islam does not.

Ishmael abandoned the worshiped of the God of Israel. There is NO biblical evidence that Abraham ever had any further dealings with him -- let alone built the Kaaba. Ishmael's descendants embraced Paganism and worshiped 360 nature spirits (or arguably demons). For the next 2000 years they worshiped these gods and there is no evidence of that God of Israel on their midst. There is however plenty of evidence of them trying to genocide the Jews and they wandered.

Then one day Muhammad had 'a vision' and 'revealed a book' that essentially contradicts the Torah in some of its most critical points. A book that condemns both the Jews and the Christians and that appoints him the final prophet. And with NO evidence that ANY of it was true.

His own people rejected the book and him and so he fled to Medina, raised an army and returned and slaughtered everyone who refused to accept his supposed revelation. Then his followers continued across most of the known world destroying cultures, slaughtering millions of people and forcing people everyone they could to "revert."

I see NOTHING in the history of Islam that even suggests the presence of God!

Rather I see barbarism.

Rather I see mass murders, plundering, rapes, incest and genocide.

Rather I see Muslims murdered for missing the prayers or violated even obscure sharia laws.

Rather I see women raped and murdered simply for not wearing hijab or for going outside alone.

It is a fact that Muhammad and his closest followers routinely raped young people, boys and girls.

It is a FACT according to Islam that Allah was the house god of the Mustafa family as I stated. It is a FACT according to Islam that Muhammad picked his family god and declared it to be the God of Ishmael without any evidence, as I stated.

What is NOT a fact and can never be demonstrated is that his family totem god had ANY relationship with Ishmael whatsoever, nor with Abraham nor with the God of Israel. Anyone could claim what he did and any successful warlord could enforce it and slaughter those who refused to comply.

You: He[Rev. Scofield] in his bible commentary writes 'ELOHIM' EL, ELAH or ALAH and in Arabic it is written as 'ALLAH.' Even Rev. Scofield writes Allah as Alah which is thesame,also in the bible in Matthew 27:46 & Mark 15:34; 'Eli Eli lama sabachthani' in Hebrew, when translated into Arabic is 'Allah Allah lama taraktani'[i.e so to say, Oh God Oh God why has thou forsaken me? in english].  so your issue of 'Allah' being a pegan god and so on, I don't know where you got that history from, its even there in the Bible if you read it correctly.

More taquiya.
I am well acquainted with the works of Rev. Scofield. What he said is that word (again its not a name) "Allah" as "al" has the same linguistic roots as the El. That is true. Both are Semitic words. However that does not mean the god called Allah by Islam is the same God as HaShem. The word el is used for many gods in the Bible. For instance:

Gen 35:3 and let us arise, and go up to Beth-el; and I will make there an altar unto God [literally 'el], who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went.
4 And they gave unto Jacob all the foreign gods [literally elohiym: plural of el] which were in their hand, and the rings which were in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which was by Shechem.

And again,

Exodus 23: 24 Thou shalt not bow down to their gods [literally: elohiym], nor serve them, nor do after their works; but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and break in pieces their pillars.

As in English, "el" and "elohym" simply mean "god" and "gods". Allah, Baal, Asteroth... there are countless elohym but HaShem says to only serve Him.

Jesus told Satan: 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

And Satan is a god himself!

II Cor. 2:4 In whom the god of this world [i.e. Satan] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.   

Are we to worship him?

Heaven forbid!

The Allah promoted by Islam is NOT the HaShem of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Jesus.

You: The Quran says about Allah in sura ikhlas chp.112 v.1-4;
Say He is Allah One and Only(1)
[Allah] the absolute and eternal(2)
He begets not nor He is begotten(3)
There is nothing like Him(4)  similar to
Exodus 30:7-8 & Deuteronomy 5:8-9

Sure, that's because al Qur'an plagerized the Bible.
It has many of the same teachings, only altered for its own purposes. It shares much spiritual truth (mainly plagiarized from the Bible, the Mahabharata and other texts) but it has very little that is unique.

You: 'Say O' Jews and Christains, come to common terms as between us and you,....

There are no "common terms" between Islam and any other religion because Islam condemns all other religions false and as it establishes itself in their lands it either persecutes them into submitting, fleeing or else it murders them outright.

Islam is evil.

Genesis 12  
1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

May HaShem bless His people and defend them from the ummah of Shaitan.

Shalom,
~ John of AllFaith (formerly Muhammad Yahya Saleem)