Expert: Scott Talbot - 12/8/2010

Question
QUESTION: Scott,
Hi, I hope that you are having a blessed day. My questions today are in regards to I John 5: 6-8. The Scriptural references that I have used to try to help me better understand these verses (especially verse 6) are John 1: 31-34 (the Holy Spirit descending upon Christ as he was being baptized by John the Baptist) and John 19: 33, 34. I have used for verse 7 of I John 5: 7 the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Son of God, was God in the flesh, and had dwelt among us when He walked upon the face of the earth (my Scriptural references for these are one again derived from John 1: 1, 2, 14 and  I Timothy 3:16.
1.   What does the water represent in Christ, as it is recorded in the Scriptures, when his side was pierced and water and blood came out, and what does this same water imply that the elder John is discussing in verse 6 of I John 5?
2.   ‘And it is the Spirit that beareth witness because the Spirit is truth’; is this the same Spirit that bears witness in our lives as born-again believers? We know from the Scriptures that John the Baptist testified only after seeing the Spirit descending upon Christ that He was the Son of God. But we already know as believers that Jesus Christ is Incarnate, and that he is the Divine, the Son of God (Luke 1: 34, 35). Why did John the Baptist need affirmation that ‘this is the Son of God’? He already said in the previous verse(s): 29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. If he already knew this why does Scriptures record that he then says: ‘And I knew him not…’ (vs. 31)
3.   the spirit, the water and the blood (in verse 8) are the 3 that bear witness on earth for us as believers. The original King James Version says ‘spirit’ in all lower-case. Is this the Holy Spirit? I am using Acts 1:8 to help me: 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Spirit is come upon you: and yes shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, ….uttermost part of the earth.” I know that the gift of the Holy Spirit is poured out on all those who believe on Jesus Christ (Acts 10:43-46; John 7:38, 39).
4.   What is the water? Can water possibly also mean the word of God --- I would using Ephesians 5: 25, 26 (focusing on vs. 26), I Peter 1: 23, and finally again John 3:5-7. Or does it mean water baptism? By I have come to learn from reading Scriptures that water does not always represent water baptism, and that the Holy Spirit through the author would have indicated water baptism if that was the case.
I hope that I do not sound confusing and sound like a confused believer from my questions. I just have been meditating on these verses from the past week and I feel led of the Lord to relay it to a panel expert who could best answer my questions. Thanks for your time Scott.
Yours in Christ, Julie


ANSWER: Hi Julie,

It's nice to hear from you. I will try to help you with your questions.

In I John 5:6-8, John is testifying as to the authenticity of the God-Man, Jesus Christ, and His work. This is verified by water, by blood, and by the Holy Spirit.

Many theologians take this reference to water as referring to Christ's baptism. This is the point at which Jesus Christ publicly revealed Himself to the world as being the Son of God. The Trinity came together--God the Son in physical form, God the Father in a voice from Heaven, and God the Holy Spirit, descending as a dove. This was God announcing to the world that He had come in the flesh.

The blood refers to Jesus' crucifixion and subsequent resurrection. One of the greatest, most irrefutable pieces of evidence that Jesus is the promised Messiah, the Son of God, is His crucifixion (an innocent God-Man dying on behalf of mankind) and His resurrection three days later.

The Holy Spirit also attests to Christ's identity and importance. He does this through the Scriptures, through prophets (Old Testament, John the Baptist, etc.), and through the work He performs in the heart of individuals, as He reveals truth and draws men to Himself.

Now to your specific questions:

1. The water that ran out of Jesus' side is not the water John is referring to in this passage. This is a physical condition that demonstrated that Jesus had actually died when His side was pierced.

2. There is plenty of evidence to confirm that Jesus is who He claims to be. But the Holy Spirit is the one who opens our eyes to the truth--the one who pierces our human blindness and tendency to reject God.

3. Yes, I believe John is referring to the Holy Spirit.

4. There are some passages that use the analogy of water when referring to God's Word. Some believe that this is what John is referencing here, but the simplest explanation is that this is referring to Christ's baptism.

Here is the point John is making. The identity, work, and purpose of Christ is highly significant. For this reason, John writes this letter to reveal to others the wonderful truth of the Person he had witnessed firsthand (see I John 1:1-4). Our goal should be that of John's--to share Christ and the wonderful news of the gospel with others.

Scott

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Scott, you know what I did have one more important question -- and it is unrelated to  Bible questions, but if you could provide any spiritual insight in this area it would be great, and direct me to any Scriptural references of course.
Ever since I reaccepted Christ back into my life last year, the Holy Spirit has convicted me of some things and other areas no conviction. For example, for some reason, I have a strong conviction now for dating (maybe because I abused the dating game --- this is when I backslided and left the Lord). Now the Lord has really put a strong desire for marriage and a burden in my heart to want to settle down and start a family and to be a mother. Ever since I came back to the Lord the Holy Spirit too has been talking to me about how I dress, my testimony of Christ through my dress, and learning to dress as a Christian lady with a proper attitude, a pleasant attitude, and good works.
This is my question: my fiancee makes a really big issue over born-again Christians displeasing the Lord when they listen to secular music. I really do not like the term secular ---- it's as if that world of music is against God. I believe that God is the Creator of all things, and that the original state of man changed, and has corrupted all things, but that beautiful music is all a gift from God as expressed through the artist.
I listen to Gospel (Fred Hammond and Radical for Christ, Hezekiah Walker and the New Fellowship, Donnie McClurkin, Yolanda Adams, Bebe and Cece Winans, Tri-ni-tee 3:5,7..and the list goes on...). But I do admit that I also love pop and R&B music (Ne-yo, Usher, Beyonce, Alicia Keys, Mariah Carey, the Dream. Kanye West, Jay-Z, Timbaland, and the list goes on). The Holy Spirit has not convicted me of listening to pop and R&B music, but yet my fiancee maintains that I cannot be possibly born-again and even dare listen to this music. He says that it does not glorify God. The content of this music talks about love, relationships, and the artist's personal experiences, or expression of what they are feeling at the time when they wrote that particular song. I enjoy the music, with no kind of evil thoughts, or sinful intentions!!! I relax with this music. That's pretty much it!!! Truly if the Holy Spirit spoke to me about the particular content of a song, I would definitely stop listening to it. When I come back from a hard day at work, I stay in range of God's voice by reading the Bible. But a couple of times during the week, I just want to unwind and listen to mainstream music (the pop and R&B music). I can't enjoy this type of music around my fiancee, but honestly, the Holy Spirit hasn't convicted me of these. Why then does my fiancee say that it is sin to listen to these?
Is it really true also that Satan corrupted music when he fell from heaven? What Scriptures are Christians using for this conclusion?
Just need some of your insight and Biblical expertise. Thank you so much for all of your help. God bless you!
Yours in Christ, Julie


ANSWER: Hi Julie,

I'm glad you wrote back.

The question you bring up about music is an interesting one. I could spend hours on it ... but I'll try to keep it relatively brief here.  ;^)

There was a time in my life that I was involved in a church that was very legalistic. They had rules about everything, including music. And the Christian life was all about obeying rules. In that environment, they were very judgmental about music and taught that some kinds of music were good and others were bad. My point is this. I understand where your boyfriend is coming from.

I came to understand that the Bible does not regulate what kind of music is appropriate or inappropriate. Sure, we are told to focus our thoughts on things that are virtuous and good and to beware of worldly philosophy or just plain inappropriate lyrics.

But there's nothing wrong with listening to non-religious music so long as we aren't filling our heads with garbage.

I'm curious ... is your boyfriend comfortable with the contemporary Christian music you listen to and not the popular music with a similar sound but non-religious lyrics? Or does he have opinions about the style of the music itself, condemning anything with a beat, some syncopation, and a lively feel to it?

If he's OK with the music, but claims that non-religious songs with similar music but innocuous lyrics is somehow wrong, then he has a problem. Does he read books that are non-religious? Poems? Does he spend time in buildings that are non-religious, celebrate holidays that are non-religious?

Just because something is not religious does not mean it is anti-religious or displeasing to God. If it's alright to read a non-religious book (like Dickens' "A Christmas Carol," for example), then it's alright to listen to non-religious music, too.

If, however, he has a problem with the music (the beat, the style, whatever), then he has another problem. The Bible gives us no instruction for delineating "good" music from "bad" music. That's because music itself is neither good nor bad. It's merely an expression of the soul ... like a poem, a painting, a good meal, or any other work of art. One may prefer certain styles over another, but that doesn't make it right or wrong.

Perhaps the reason you have sensed no conviction from the Holy Spirit about this matter of music is that, in my opinion, there is no need. You're doing nothing wrong. And no one, including your boyfriend, should try to make you feel guilty about it.

Does your boyfriend have strong opinions about other topics, such as dress, hair style, Bible translations? If one is legalistic about one thing, he's likely to be legalistic about others. And legalism is a very unhealthy belief system. It destroys the heart of worship and replaces it with empty, often man-made, rules.

I hope this helps. Feel free to write back if you would like to further discuss this or any other question.



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Scott,
Hi! I am sorry. It's been a busy week thus far.
I must admit that when I read your responses to the question that I had about 'secular' music, that I chuckled several times.
I think the same way that you think about 'secular' music(and I think that this is so cool because I think we are applying the Bible according to how the Holy Spirit directs the conscience) that if the lyrics are harmless, then how is it being detrimental to the soul? I remember also the words of Jesus to the Pharisees (paraphrasing: 'it is not what is without that defiles oneself..but it is the thoughts and what precipitates from the mind____ evil thoughts, immorality, greed, lust, etc. that defiles the person.' I find that too many Christians nowadays are too, so perplexed when it comes to non-religious activities. I also believe that if you truly are a born-again believer, and indeed live by the power of the Holy Spirit, that He will convict you over anything which may seem to be an idol, or that is clearly sin. Scot, when I think about the context of the issue of music, I reflect on how the Corinthians addressed the Apostle Paul about their concern about eating meat or food that was sacrificed to idols, since they had just come out of a pagan society before becoming saved. But it seems like to Paul, that the newly born-again Christians who did know the truth of the fact that idols didn't exist and knew that it was okay to eat food that had been sacrificed to idols, and the varying fact that those Gentiles were concerned over eating meat or food sacrificed to idols had a 'weak' conscience. They did not know how to exercise their liberty in Christ according to Biblical truth because they had 'weak' consciences. It seems like they thought that by eating food that was sacrificed to idols that they were directly 'still' participating in pagan worship. Please since you are an expert in Biblical Studies, please write back to me to let me know if I am correct or incorrect in my analysis.
So you see I asked you about music (and one other panel expert) because I sincerely want to know the truth. And the other panel expert also expressed the same truth that there is essentially nothing wrong with listening to non-Christian music. I wanted your opinion as a brother in Christ.
I attack my fiancee because I don't get it --- he enjoys reading Time magazine (the last I checked this is not a Christian magazine) and he buys Men's Health magazine when we both go to the grocery to update himself on tips for a strong, healthy body and other exercising modes to maintain a 6-pack. Ohh, and check this out....he like Computer World Magazine because he is a Systems Consultant.
I am not knocking down my fiancee, but this issue over music has got to be resolved if we are to take this next step into our relationship through marriage. He listens to jazz though (which is not Christian music) and Christian contemporary music AND Gospel music. But let me tell you something funny, and very interesting. We are both African American. Black Gospel is very lively, and the mode of tempo is upbeat; exactly similar to HIP-HOP, and rhythym and blues uptempo music. So remember how you asked me this:
I'm curious ... is your boyfriend comfortable with the contemporary Christian music you listen to and not the popular music with a similar sound but non-religious lyrics? Or does he have opinions about the style of the music itself, condemning anything with a beat, some syncopation, and a lively feel to it?
Yeah, you see when I listen to his music, it is just like mine, only with religious content, and how about this____ check this out. Most of the Gospel music he listens to has 'guest' appearance from some of the names in R&B and hip-hop music. So where do we and how are we to draw the distinction? And I agree, my fiancee has a problem. He also says that we will not be listening to the kind of music that I like in Heaven. You should hear the 'gospel' song he played the other day: 'Exalt the Lord', but it has a rock-and-roll feel to it because of the guitar! Like I said, he has a problem. I would honestly appreciate more of your Biblical insight and Oh please remember to answer my question on whether my analysis of the Apostle Paul's chapter to the Corinthians about food sacrificed to idols can be applied to the debatable issue over Christians on 'secular' music. And why is it called 'secular' anyway...isn't music a part of God's created world? Thanks for your time and for helping Scott.
Yours in Christ, Julie

Answer
Hi Julie,

First, let's look at your first question regarding Paul's words to the Corinthian Christians, and their debate about the controversial subject of eating meat sacrificed to idols.

In Romans 14, Paul talks about Christian liberty, and the right that each one of us has (within Scriptural guidelines) to make certain decision with regards to our Christian walk. He discussed the obvious fact that there are a number of issues over which good Christians disagree. These can be controversial, because the Bible may not give clear guidance on them, or because each side feels they have valid Biblical support for their position.

In this chapter, he warns against using our Christian liberties in such a way as to harm a new believer. For example, you may believe it's alright to listen to contemporary Christian music, but a new believer may feel a bit sensitive about this issue--that it's better for him to not listen to it. Paul's point is that each person is entitled to his opinion. But the more mature Christian should not pressure the less mature Christian to adopt his viewpoint and, by doing so, violate his conscience.

We each have a right to do what we feel is acceptable in these areas. The point is that this is a matter between each believer and God. This is not something we should force on someone else. Even if we think it's silly for someone to shun contemporary Christian music, it would not be healthy to convince him to go against his conscience and to embrace it, if he still believes it is not appropriate for him.

On the flip side of the coin, Paul warns the less mature believer, as well, against condemning someone for his choices regarding Christian liberties. Both the mature believer and the immature believer have to decide what is right for THEM. Neither is justified in forcing his opinion on the other. (Again, this is in the context of controversial Christian liberty. Debating the absolute truths of Scripture is a different matter.)

I'm wondering, ... do you consider your boyfriend to be an immature or a mature believer?

You see, there's another issue here. It's the issue of Pharisaical legalism. The Pharisees of Jesus' day (as well as the legalists that I've encountered) could be considered mature, well-versed, learned theologians. Their vice was not a matter of spiritual immaturity. Rather, it was a matter of religious pride.

Legalism uses external means in an attempt to measure one's spirituality. It's a system that is designed to achieve a high level of "spirituality" for oneself. And the corollary is that it leads to judging and condemning others for their unwillingness or inability to adhere to their (primarily man-made) rules.

So the question is, How do you respond to your boyfriend? If he is spiritually immature, then you both need to agree to disagree and know that you each answer only to God. If he is entrenched in legalism, then ... well, ... you both need to agree that you each answer only to God, and it is not either one's place to force his views on the other.

If the two of you are serious and are considering marriage, then that's a tough one. I don't want to tell you that your marriage could not work. (Certainly a common faith in Jesus Christ is a solid foundation on which to build a long-term relationship.) But I think there could be some significant challenges that involve not only beliefs, but also practice. You're already experiencing a challenge with the issue of music.

(By the way, it doesn't sound like your boyfriend practices what he preaches. If he is condemning your music simply because it's non-religious, then why is it OK for him to listen to his non-religious music? Is it just that you have different musical tastes? It would be a shame if he tried to use his faith to guilt you into changing your musical choices.)

Secular music ... you're right, God created music. Like anything else, it can be used in an appropriate manner, or in an inappropriate manner. Take movies, for example. A filmmaker can produce a movie that is wholesome and good. It can have a religious theme (like The Passion of the Christ), or it can have a non-religious theme (like The Sound of Music). Movies can also be used inappropriately when used to make pornography.

So we should be careful how we use the word, "secular." If, by this, we mean "not necessarily religious, but not anti-religious," then it means one thing. But it can also be taken to mean "worldly; promoting an anti-God philosophy." Just because something is not overtly religious (like Time magazine), this does not necessarily mean it is anti-religious. And, even if it includes what may be anti-God philosophy, it can still be acceptable if filtered through our understanding of Scripture.

Scott