Expert: Scott Talbot - 12/18/2010

Question
QUESTION: Scott,
Before you read, forgive me. I am very sorry, it's me again. The website indicated 'too many follow ups' so I have to submit a new question. In relation to my fiancee and what you discussed with me, and from the truth of reality, he really is the one that is condemning me and thinks that he is better than me 'spiritually'. Notice quote on quote: 'spiritually'; translation = measuring spirituality on outward holiness. Sometimes he even tells me that my earrings are TOO BIG. But really, they are like the size of a paperclip. I love him dearly so much, but honestly, I think that some of these concepts of Christian living that he derives are from what his church teaches him.You see I attend an Assembly of God church, and he at tends an Apostolic Faith church. I wish that we could attend church together, and I really desire this, but I don't know....
I think that the pastor in their church emphasizes extra-biblical doctrines, placing emphasis that born-again Christians should separate from the world and not even dare listen to secular music. And I totally disagree, because that pastor IS NOT weighing out Biblical truth, and is not considering what the Bible says as a whole (like for example taking into consideration Romans 14).
On that note, and based on this, I do not listen to my secular music around my fiancee because I know that he will chew me out, and have grown tired of him condeming my music! AND I think that he should keep his 'weak' conscience to himself. I think that he should stop attending that church because that is the same church that he heard and told me that when Satan fell from Heaven that the first thing he corrupted was music. They taught that to them in Bible class (can you believe this_____????) What kind of load of crap are they teaching in Bible class? That is their symbol for purity? Not listening to secular music? What does the Bible say about holiness? Isn't it a cleansed conscience? One that practices standards based on the Bible? One whose conscience, in faith in Christ our Lord and Saviour has been cleansed with the blood of Christ? Holiness is inward purity___ it has never been and will never be an outward thing. In fact, isn't this what Jesus condemned in the Pharisees?????You know what, this issue of music____when I listen to this music, it's like it filters in my ear and completely out the other...I don't even think about it, and it does not precipitate any evil, wicked, or sexual thoughts/desires in me. And like I had said earlier, if the content is abusive, checks will come by the Holy Spirit. And I will submit. But I will not submit to man-made doctrines, and be tossed to and fro from the cunningness of men. We are both, by the grace of God, still virgins(praise God!) We are both virgins (praise God!!!)I listened to Usher last week, and I don't even remember to what I was listening to! But ask me about the Word of God, and I will remember thoroughly what I have read AND I am an advocate for proper doctrine! Amen!
About this Bible class that they dedicated to the fall of Satan my fiancee quoted some verse in Isaiah and Ezekiel (a verse or two mentioning harp or violins; something like that). Do you happen to know what chapter of Isaiah and Ezekiel that these pastors are drawing these conclusions from? I just am an advocate for truth, that's all! But one of the pastors in that Apostolic Faith church has brainwashed the believers or something saying that born-again believers are displeasing the Lord by listening to secular music. And I am not going to be calling it secular music anymore because some of these artists recognize God and Jesus Christ a lot in their accolades and award ceremonies and have not publicly dishonoured the LORD GOD. God fobid that I would entertain such an artist. Please can you give me where they are drawing this assumption from Satan corrupting music; he is the 'god of this age' and has corrupted the world..but I am sure getting fired up about this music thing, and want to put this false myth to rest once and for all. Thanks, and I am sorry if I sound too unfeminine and volatile. I am the most gentlest person, but I really don't like people imposing beliefs, and extra-biblical beliefs for that matter, on me.
In Christ, and trying to solve this music puzzle,
Julie

ANSWER: Hi Julie,

No worries. You aren't asking too many questions.

This web site takes a look at the passages most commonly referred to when tying Satan in to music. It claims that he may have been in charge of music in heaven, or so some people think.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Satan-music.html

The evidence is weak, but there could be something to it.

So, did Satan corrupt music when he fell from heaven? No. Mankind, the earth, and the universe were corrupted when Adam and Eve fell into sin and the subsequent curse came upon mankind and the earth.

When this happened, evil entered the scene. Every good thing that God had made could now be used in a sinful manner. This became true of music, art, labor, relationships, worship, love of nature, food ... everything became subject to misuse by mankind, whose nature was now sinful.

To say music is sinful is like saying a tree is sinful. Music is something God invented. He made it. He also made trees. A tree can be used to fashion an exquisite piece of furniture. It can also be used to form a cross on which to execute Jesus Christ.

So music can be used for God. There are many examples of this in Scripture and in current use of music. It can also be used incorrectly, such as conveying thoughts of hatred and violence typical of some Hip Hop music. Music, however, in and of itself, is not evil. To try to prove that it is from Scripture is impossible.

Feel free to write back.  

Scott


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Scott,
Hi. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to write back to you and have any further discussion on this subject matter of music.
I looked at that website that you posted in your recent response to me to review(got questions.org) and it seems like there is a strong case for the subject matter on music and Satan, but not enough compelling evidence according to the Bible. But you see, this is my fear for most Christians nowadays --- we are extracting information 'that's not there' when we read a passage in the Bible and this is not healthy and spiritually sound! The Bible is our only 'book' for Christian living and I do not see any passages about music except in the Word of God where the apostle Paul states for us as believers to address one another in hymns and spiritual songs (if I am not mistaken this is mentioned in the Epistle to the Ephesians and the Colossians).
Now, Satan could not have corrupted music, according to the Biblical definition of corruption. And so, I have to say that I definitely agree with the following response that you provided to me:
<"So, did Satan corrupt music when he fell from heaven? No. Mankind, the earth, and the universe were corrupted when Adam and Eve fell into sin and the subsequent curse came upon mankind and the earth.

When this happened, evil entered the scene. Every good thing that God had made could now be used in a sinful manner. This became true of music, art, labor, relationships, worship, love of nature, food ... everything became subject to misuse by mankind, whose nature was now sinful.

To say music is sinful is like saying a tree is sinful. Music is something God invented. He made it. He also made trees. A tree can be used to fashion an exquisite piece of furniture. It can also be used to form a cross on which to execute Jesus Christ.

So music can be used for God. There are many examples of this in Scripture and in current use of music. It can also be used incorrectly, such as conveying thoughts of hatred and violence typical of some Hip Hop music. Music, however, in and of itself, is not evil. To try to prove that it is from Scripture is impossible.">
It's amazing how you and I as renewed and born-again Christians should think like, and what most born-again Christians are not exercising. Like anything else in this world, God meant for it to be enjoyed and used appropriately, within space and time, and without inordinate use. Using things in the world inordinately and inappropriately (misuse, like you had mentioned) is what lead to sin and corruption (a depraved mind)and at this point this is when it violates the moral code of God. But isn't totally outstretched to say that a born-again believer is sinning by listening to 'secular' music? Aren't our minds renewed in Christ according to I Peter 1:21-23?
1 Peter 1:21-23 (New King James Version)

21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
The Enduring Word
  
22 Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[a] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, 23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,[b]

So, except the motives of the listener and the thoughts that arise from the listener's association with the music are evil and vile, wicked, or sexual, what is the harm in listening to this type of music? And then of course, we have to consider the lyrics and if the artists bashes God in any way, shape, or form. If for example I know this as a born-again believer, or pursue any active research of the lyrics, and find this to be true, I should not listen to that song. To say that Satan corrupted music contradicts what the Word of God says about the human mind, and
Ephesians 4:17-26 (New King James Version)

The New Man
  
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of[a] the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
'The old man which grows corrupt according to deceitful lusts'. Scott, please kindly correct me if I am wrong. We are no longer like the 'Gentile' or the unspiritually renewed (i.e. non born-again)individual/an unbeliever who have been deceived by Satan. So if I am listening to this music for plain enjoyment (in my case I don't care about the lyrics; it is one case if I understand the lyrics and they are derogatory and I continue listening to them, but is another case if they are not derogatory, and it is just evident that the music is clearly identical to poetry and is nothing more than a piece of art)what exactly is the sin? Maybe you can give me more insight.... With the music that I listen to, I just absolutely love the beats --- remember I am African American; black music is filled with lots of strong backbeats and syncopation. Here is another Scriptures which warrants that man is naturally corrupt (or has a depraved mind):--- because even Paul states here that a simple thing like the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is corrupted as he is making a direct reference to false teachers who 'maneuvered' their way into the church
2 Corinthians 11:1-3 (New King James Version)

2 Corinthians 11
Concern for Their Faithfulness
1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. 2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity[a] that is in Christ.
Once again Scriptures showing that it is man's mind that is always corrupted, and Satan is the deceiver, not the deceiving instruments, or 'ghost' in the instruments as these ministers in my fiancee's church seem to allude to. Can you provide more insight to me, and do any of your born-again friends or church associates listen to 'secular' music? I am terribly sorry to bother you once again, and I pray that you can forgive me. Thanks for your time and patience.
In Christ, Julie

ANSWER: Hi Julie,

You asked for more insight into the issue of music.

What does the Bible say about music? It indicates that music is a part of every culture, that music can and should be used to worship God, music lifts the spirit, it encourages and can edify. What the Bible does NOT do is provide specific guidelines on music or tell us that certain kinds of music are OK, and others are sinful.

There are general principles that encourage us to focus our thoughts on things that are wholesome and edifying (Phil. 4:8). This admonition is given in the context of avoiding anxiety and building joy into one's life.

While it is not healthy to immerse ourselves in worldly philosophy, violence, promiscuity, and other negative, worldly thoughts, the fact of the matter is that we are exposed to such things all the time. Through television, advertising, and our culture, we are exposed to worldly messages and values on a constant basis. There are times, in fact, when we hear teaching from religious leaders, and it does not match the teaching of the Bible.

The key to the matter is how we respond. Do we naively embrace any and all philosophies that come our way? Or do we measure all truth by the Scriptures and seek to separate God's truth from the world's views?

Here's an example. Many of the popular songs of the last few decades follow a theme of relationships--love, friendship, girl, boy, romance, breakup. There are many poems that are based on the theme of love or romance, and these songs are nothing more than poems set to music. They are expressions of natural, human emotions, and they share the experience of joys and struggles in relationships. True, these songs do not always provide the proper perspective on the matter, and they would not necessarily make for sound instruction on how to relate to the opposite sex. But, if we're filtering what we hear through God's Word (just as we filter television, news, advertising, etc.), then it should not be considered wrong.

I sense that you are struggling with your boyfriend over this matter. He wants to debate you, and he may be presenting what he feels to be good arguments. This makes you feel guilty (perhaps) and pressures you into having to defend yourself to him.

If that's what's happening, understand that you will likely not change his thinking anytime soon, and he will not change yours. Avoid the debates, as they only create more stress for both of you.

Go back and read Romans 14. Commit to one another that you will seek to agree on the absolutes--the essential doctrines of the faith; and, on issues of Christian liberty (non-absolutes, like music), agree to disagree.

Please write back again, if you like. And no more apologizing! I wouldn't be taking the time to do this if I didn't enjoy trying to help.

Scott

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Scott,
Hi, it's Julie. I do have to apologize because sometimes I get a brain cramp. I just realized that you have been helping me all this time with an important Christian issue and I did not even think--- I forgot to leave you feedback! So I am leaving you feedback as I submit this question to you. And I thank you so much for being patient with me --- I hope that you can forgive:- I do have a couple of questions that I jotted down for my reading on Romans 14 (and these are paralleled to I Corinthians 8). I am sorta like a retard to on e-mails: don't get to them as quick as I should. I just had an opportunity yesterday to read the allexperts.com last answer that you provided to me on the seemingly endless issue of 'secular' music. This is how busy I have been (work has been running me under the bus, and it is full of passengers!!!)
For starters, I have left you feedback, and secondly I do have to agree with the following that you stated in your last response to me:
<<"Here's an example. Many of the popular songs of the last few decades follow a theme of relationships--love, friendship, girl, boy, romance, breakup. There are many poems that are based on the theme of love or romance, and these songs are nothing more than poems set to music. They are expressions of natural, human emotions, and they share the experience of joys and struggles in relationships. True, these songs do not always provide the proper perspective on the matter, and they would not necessarily make for sound instruction on how to relate to the opposite sex. But, if we're filtering what we hear through God's Word (just as we filter television, news, advertising, etc.), then it should not be considered wrong.>>".
Thank you for the enlightenment. It is twice as equally graceful to me to hear the words of someone who truly applies the Word of God correctly to Christian living...
So I guess I am really obtaining answers now to this issue of music, especially through the Word of God and the Scriptures that you have so graciously pointed me to, along with your wonderful expertise.
These are my questions (so far), but they do not pertain to Romans 14. I will probably have to submit that later because I don't think the allexperts will allow me to submit another follow-up (ever wonder: why do we women ask too many questions sometimes??). Here they are.
Somewhere in the epistle to the Corinthians the Apostle Paul mentions that if someone told a  believer that what he would be eating was food sacrificed to idols and that he was told this before he ate, that he should refrain from doing so, not because of the believer's conscience, but because of that person's scruples or 'weak' conscience, albeit the believer's liberty in Christ. But Paul also goes on to advice the new Corinthian believers that whatever they do, to do for the glory of God, especially for the sake of the gospel and bringing salvation to others.
So my first question is:
Question 1) Where can this principle be applied in the area of for example, a born-again believer like myself, or any other born-again Christian in the area of 'secular' music, especially around unbelievers (say for example at work if someone ask me do I like Beyonce or Mariah Carey, what do I say? Do I say: 'Oh, no I am a Christian --- you are not supposed to listen to that kind of music...' when if for example, a few weeks later I burn a CD and bring it to work to play in my personal work area? How do you know where refrain yourself and bring glory to God?)
Question 2) If the content of the music does not have religious material, does that necessarily mean that it is not bringing glory to God? I thought bringing glory to God is trying to demonstrate love over liberty, and laying aside liberty to reflect a positive Christian witness. Like say for example if an unbeliever at work invites me to a movie, and I may like that movie, but I want to show a good testimony not accept the invitation. IS THIS what the apostle Paul meant by bringing glory and honour to God?
Question 3) For Romans 14 (1 question so far): in what other areas of life/hobbies/entertainment do born-gain Christians exhibit liberty in Christ besides music?
This question entered my mind recently, as I reflected on the Word of God. Scott, we are in a spiritual battle and in the day in age that we see the Scriptures being fulfilled left and right. Please be very honest and forthright with me with this answer --- does the false teacher reject the Holy Spirit?...I guess I mean to ask: how can they teach someone salvation if they do not believe in Christ? What type of salvation are they teaching others? How can someone say that they received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when they are a false teacher? Is this just another one of their made-up stories? I ask these questions because according to Scriptures, those who have believed on Jesus, and have trusted Christ as their Saviour, and truly have repented of their sins become eligible candidates for the Holy Spirit (because they accept the gospel, the Word of truth) and once an individual believe, is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (I read this somewhere in Ephesians). So since they distort the Word of God to void doctrines which pertain to salvation, and are not genuinely saved, and have not accepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour, what is their point of existence? What point are they trying to prove? I ask all of these questions because of the following Scriptures:
I Peter1: 16-21, 2 Peter 2: 1-3
We saw Christ's Glory
16 When we told you about the powerful coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, we were not telling just clever stories that someone invented. But we saw the greatness of Jesus with our own eyes. 17 Jesus heard the voice of God, the Greatest Glory, when he received honor and glory from God the Father. The voice said, "This is my Son, whom I love, and I am very pleased with him."18 We heard that voice from heaven while we were with Jesus on the holy mountain.

19 This makes us more sure about the message the prophets gave. It is good for you to follow closely what they said as you would follow a light shining in a dark place, until the day begins and the morning star rises in your hearts.20 Most of all, you must understand this: No prophecy in the Scriptures ever comes from the prophet's own interpretation.21 No prophecy ever came from what a person wanted to say, but people led by the Holy Spirit spoke words from God.
2 Peter 2
False Teachers
1 There used to be false prophets among God's people, just as you will have some false teachers in your group. They will secretly teach things that are wrong —teachings that will cause people to be lost. They will even refuse to accept the Master, Jesus, who bought their freedom. So they will bring quick ruin on themselves.2 Many will follow their evil ways and say evil things about the way of truth.3 Those false teachers only want your money, so they will use you by telling you lies. Their judgment spoken against them long ago is still coming, and their ruin is certain.
Clearly the Holy Spirit spoke through Elder(or Apostle) Paul that they refuse to accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour by denying Him (Christ Jesus who bought them with a price --- bought their freedom from sin through death on the cross!) I read about these false teachers invading the church even the first century and I am scared! Can you please answer my questions above, and give me some insights as to why these knucleheads exist and why they fight God, his Church, his Son Jesus Christ, and the effects of blaspheming the Holy Spirit of God?
Thanks Scott; I have delivered a mouthful, but you are helping a sincerely concerned sister in Christ and may God bless you.
Julie. Hope you are having a pleasant Holiday season.

Answer
Hi Julie,

Question 1: How do we apply the principles of Christian liberty to non-religious music?

You bring up an important point. Passages such as Romans 14:21 warn us not to use our liberty to cause another to stumble. In other words, our Christian liberty should not be used carelessly. We must understand that certain things are acceptable, but they could have a negative impact on others.

You brought up the example of unsaved co-workers who may question your musical tastes or willingness to go to see a movie. Sure, you need to consider how these choices may impact your testimony. But let's think about this example. Would there be a problem with your telling your coworkers you enjoy listening to Mariah Carey? Probably not? On the other hand, what good would it do them to say, "No, I don't listen to anything but religious music," or "I don't go to movies." They'd probably scratch their heads, wonder what that all meant, and conclude that the Christian life requires obedience to weird and confusing rules.

Years ago I attended a church that taught that Christians should not watch movies in a movie theater--ANY kind of movies. Everyone at work knew I was a Christian, and I would regularly share my faith with them. Several of them were friends, and one of my friends invited me to go see a movie with him. When I told him I couldn't, he didn't understand (and frankly, I had a hard time explaining). I was trying to display a good testimony, but I think it actually came across as a stupid and meaningless rule. (Fact is, it WAS a stupid and meaningless rule.)

Question 2: Does music have to be overtly religious to glorify God?

No, I don't think so. In I Corinthians 10:31, Paul says, "Whether you eat, or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." Does eating involve religious content? Drinking? No. Whatever we do can and should glorify God.

Question 3: What are some other examples of Christian liberty?

Basically, any controversial issue on which the Bible does not give clear instruction can be a matter of Christian liberty. The truth is, we Christians can make a controversial issue out of a lot of things:  music, clothing fashions, hair length, facial hair, choice of Bible translation, movies, entertainment, Sabbath practices, etc., etc. Any of these can be an issue of Christian liberty.

But remember to balance your Christian liberty with the understanding that our choices often make an impact on others. This understanding should help to temper our choices and may sometimes lead us to willingly limit our liberties out of deference for another. (However, I do not believe it is necessarily wise to allow legalists to dictate our liberties when the issue is one of spiritual pride and superiority on their part.)

Question 4:  Why are there people who claim to be religious and yet attack God and His truth?

This is an excellent question, Julie. A similar question in my mind is this: "Why is it that the overwhelming majority of mankind, during every period of human history, and from every corner of the globe, embrace some sort of religion or belief in some sort of "god," and yet most of these reject the one true God and the truth of His Word?"

There are a number of possible answers to these questions. One is that Satan and his forces are at work, deceiving many and waging a vicious spiritual warfare. Another is that the most convincing form of lies and falsehood are those that most closely resemble the real thing. Third, man's heart is desperately wicked and capable of some difficult-to-explain things. Fourth, without Christ, we are blinded in our sin and don't always understand what we're doing. Fifth, our sin nature leads us to rebel against our Maker and the wonderful Savior who gave His life for us. It doesn't make a bit of sense, but our nature is to reject God in an attempt to be the master of our own lives.

Scott