Expert: Clifford H. Readout, Jr. - 1/11/2011

Question
I've just read an article you wrote about called the spirit and soul and it was very good. This has prompted me to ask a question. Did Jesus suffer in Hades or was His suffering the cross only? As I have studied the Word I have come to the conclusion His soul suffered in Hades before the resurrection. I believe Jesus died in the flesh, spirit and soul as were the three sacrifices in Leviticus pointing to the coming sacrifice of Christ, the very three things we need to keep blameless before Jesus returns. There are many prophetic writings in the old testament were by the soul was in torment in hades like Psalm 18, Psalm 116, 2 Samuel 22, Jonah etc. You have said the spirit returns to God when death happens which is true according to Ecclesiastes and this happens is you are a believer or not because its the soul (the living being) either goes to be with the Lord (Born-again believer) or Hell if not. The final thing is, if this is correct, when Jesus (on the cross) said, into Your hands I commit My Spirit, then His soul went into Hades, what about the other guy on the cross when Jesus said, 'TODAY' you will be in paradise with Me? I know there was a righteous side of paradise where Abraham was and the Lord took them to Heaven after He rose from the 'DEAD' and even that word dead means He had to suffer because death is the opposite to life. Acts 2:24 says, God raised Him from the dead, feeing Him from the agony of death. KJV says, having loosed the pains of death. Looking forward to your reply, may the Lord bless you, Duncan.

Answer
Dear Duncan,

You ask many questions, but only two in the form of a question:
1. Did Jesus suffer in Hades or was His suffering the cross only?
2. The final thing is, if this is correct, when Jesus (on the cross) said, into Your hands I commit My Spirit, then His soul went into Hades, what about the other guy on the cross when Jesus said, 'TODAY' you will be in paradise with Me?

The other questions are a request for confirmation of your conclusions and beliefs and a doubting of part of my previous answer on the subject:
1. You concluded that “His soul suffered in Hades before the resurrection”.
2. You believe “Jesus died in the flesh, spirit and soul as were the three sacrifices in Leviticus”.
3. You question my conclusion about Ecclesiastes 12:7 and its application to Christ: “You have said the spirit returns to God when death happens which is true according to Ecclesiastes and this happens is you are a believer or not because its the soul (the living being) either goes to be with the Lord (Born-again believer) or Hell if not. The final thing is, if this is correct”, and it is this doubt which issued the second stated question.

Please be patient with me as I reply from my heart about this use of AllExperts.com, and then respond to the issues in the questions.

First, your stating that you have already come to a conclusion concerning the answer to the first question makes it seem like your asking the question is not an inquiry into truth, but a seeking of confirmation, at best, or an attempt to teach something you think I have missed,  or, at worst, an invitation to argue.  This is not a kind way to use those who volunteer on AllExperts.com, especially those who are really diligent in their efforts to provide solid Biblical exposition for their answers.   I do not think you intend any abuse, and I think there is sincerity behind your words.  This tells me that you have not actually come to a conclusion, but are still testing your belief you are developing.  I am willing to work on that with you, but I am not willing to work to confirm your belief, nor be taught in this manner, and certainly not to argue.  My obligation to AllExperts.com, and hence to you, is to provide answers to questions, nothing more.

Now, to the questions:
1. Did Jesus suffer in Hades or was His suffering the cross only?
The terminology is not quite precise enough.  Suffering can be mental as well as physical.  If you write to me directly at readout@gmail.com I will send you a document that details the fulfillments of the sixteen abuses Christ prophesied He would suffer.  His sufferings included the betrayal by a friend by the means of a kiss.  I would also give you a study which details the greatest agony He suffered, which came before His crucifixion.  Ask for the studies about “Abuse” and “The Garden”.  I will not charge you for them, but ask you to honor my copyright.

That being said, if I can assume “suffer” to mean any form of anguish, either physical or spiritual, I can answer that the Lord never escapes the suffering of anguish for those who choose not be saved.  His sacrifice on the Cross was to provide men an opportunity to escape damnation. John 3:16 specifies that even believers would perish if it were not for His sacrifice, and that even with it the possibility of them perishing remains.

On the other hand, if we limit “suffering” to that which is specifically attributed to crucifixion and being in hades, then I cannot find any evidence that Christ suffered in Hades.  You need to keep in mind the distinction between soul and body when you read the applicable texts.  It is an error to attribute to the “spirit”, or life-force component of the human being, some measure of consciousness.  Comments that appear to do so are metaphorical, and denied by literal texts.  So, the appearance of a correlation between the Leviticus image and the suffering of Christ is pleasingly fanciful, but not good doctrine.

What “parts” of the human being have the capability to suffer and to die?
Genesis 2:7 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23 demonstrate three components of a human being: spirit, and soul, and body.  Ecclesiastes 12:7 specifies that at death the body, which is dust, (Genesis 3:19) returns to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

So, what dies?  Only the body.  The spirit does not die, the soul does not die.  So those texts which speak of literal death apply only to the body.  (I know the texts which refer to killing both soul and body, and they do not negate this argument.  Death is also used in a metaphorical way in Scripture.)
Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that “the dead know not any thing”.  This does not refer to spirits or souls, because they do not die, but it speaks of the bodies only.  The bodies know nothing after death, but return to dust through the process of “corruption” or natural decay.  We know that the body can suffer, but it appears that it can suffer only prior to death.  Once dead, its sufferings cease.

The spirit is not personalized, nor is it part of the human center of consciousness.  The soul’s existence and awareness is not diminished at death by the return of the spirit to God.  So, there is no reason to think that the spirit suffers either before or after death.  Those texts which indicate otherwise are, again, metaphorical.

Psalm 16:10 and Acts 2:27 assures us that the body of Jesus Christ went into the grave, but did not experience the normal decay process.  It also dictates that His soul did not go into the grave, but into Hades/Sheol.  The only textual evidence relating to the state of the soul when it is in Hades is Luke 16’s testimony about Lazarus and the rich man.

The body of Jesus Christ, which died by crucifixion, went into the grave, but was raised up from the grave after the specified three days and three nights (which was three literal days and nights, from just prior to sundown on the fourth day of the week to just prior to sundown on the seventh day of the week).  Accordingly, His flesh did not see corruption. (Psalms 16:10; Acts 2:27, :31; Acts 13:34; Acts 13:35, 36, 37; 1 Corinthians 15:4, 50; Galatians 6:8.)

To conclude that Jesus suffered in spirit, soul and body is an error.  But the testimony of Scripture is clear that He suffered in both body and soul before the crucifixion and he suffered at least in body during the crucifixion. I could present an argument that the sufferings of His soul ended in the Garden prior to His arrest, but that must be left for another forum than AllExperts.com.

What did happen to His soul and spirit after death?
By the Spirit His soul went “into the lower parts of the earth” and preached unto the spirits in prison. I cannot categorically state that this happened immediately at His death, and there is at least one extraordinarily good reason to think this refers to something long before Christ’s death. I can categorically state what happened at His ascension, though.  He led those who were captive to liberty, and turned the captors into captives. (1 Peter 3:18 - 19; Ephesians 4:7 - 10; Psalms 68:18 - 19.)  His soul was not confined to the grave during those three days like His body was.

So, what about those verses which seem to indicate suffering of the soul after death?  Do any of them apply to Christ?

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:  23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:  24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.  25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:  26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:  27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.  28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.  29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.  30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;  31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.  32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.  33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.  34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,  35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.  36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Look closely!  Acts 2:24 does not say Christ suffered from the pains of death, nor that He was loosed from them.  The pains were loosed, not Christ was loosed.  And why were they loosed?  Because it was not possible for them to get their grip on Him!
Acts 2:27-31 speak primarily of the preservation and resurrection of His body and the reunification of it with His soul to have a living bodily presence to sit on the throne of David.
(To this agrees the context of Acts 13:35, as well.)

Other passages which speak of the “sorrows of death”, etc. are poetic, and while often considered to be prophetically speaking of Christ, simply cannot, because they contradict other texts which plainly refer to Christ.

2Samuel 22:5 When the waves of death compassed me, the floods of ungodly men made me afraid; 6 The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;
Psalms 18:4 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the floods of ungodly men made me afraid. 5 The sorrows of hell compassed me about: the snares of death prevented me.
Psalms 55:4 My heart is sore pained within me: and the terrors of death are fallen upon me.
Psalms 116:3 The sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.

Furthermore, what are the waves of death, the sorrows of hell, the snares of death, the terrors of death, and the pains of hell?  It seems likely that the imagery is best defined in 1Corinthians 15:56: The sting of death is sin...

Whatever definition you find for these terms in Scripture, do not forget that they could not get a hold on Christ!

Christ did die, the Scripture is adamant about it.  But it never suggests that His experience after death included any suffering.  He was not the victim of death, but its Conqueror!
Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Finally, we have no textual evidence that Jesus spent three days in Hades. There are other things accomplished during the time His body was in the grave, and if time has any relevance at all to the soul and spirit, He was doing something more than waiting in silent suffering for the three days to pass.

2. The final thing is, if this is correct, when Jesus (on the cross) said, into Your hands I commit My Spirit, then His soul went into Hades, what about the other guy on the cross when Jesus said, 'TODAY' you will be in paradise with Me?

Well, your summary of my comments was incomplete, so the “if this is correct” must be qualified.  “If my summary of your comments is correct, as far as they go, then…” would be a much better introduction to the question.
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
The Lord Jesus told the repentant thief that he was going to die that very day, just as Christ was, but that he would be “with” Him in paradise that very day. [The language, “with me” is significant, and while there is neither time or space in this answer to include the scriptural facts about them, I will simply say that being “with Jesus” includes your being His guest and under His authority and protection.]  “Paradise” is defined in Revelation 2:7; 22:2, 14, and also 2 Corinthians 12:4.  I don’t think paradeisos (“paradise”) is the same as hades (“hell”).

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
Acts 17:3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
Hebrews 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
1Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Peter 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

There are verses which equate the sufferings of Christ with those we mere mortals suffer before death, but nothing about after death.
2Corinthians 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
2Corinthians 1:7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.
Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
1Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ’s sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

And, finally, Christ does not continually suffer, but He did suffer once, when He put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself;
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

In conclusion, I think it is proven that His body’s sufferings ended at death, and that His spirit did not suffer after the crucifixion. But I do not think it can be proven that His soul suffered after the death of His body in any manner to which we can relate or intended by your use of the word.

I hope this helps clarify the issue for you.

CR