Expert: Scott Talbot - 1/21/2011

Question
QUESTION: Hello Scott! I hope that you are having a blessed day. I am a new believer in Christ and I need some help today with clarifying Scriptures. In Matthew 19:27 Peter says (paraphrasing): Behold we have left all and followed you; what is our reward? Jesus then promises them that in the next world to come that they would receive their due reward. But then Jesus flips his response in verse 29 and seems to be addressing another group of people --- all who will leave their earthly relationships and possessions for a relationship with Him (for my sake). But He doesn’t say that these group of people (all who have left mother or father or brother or sister or lands, etc), and follows me____ instead He says that everyone who has left a relationship or possessions for His sake will obtain 100fold and eternal life. Then He adds in verse 30 that the ‘first shall be last and the last shall be first’…what does He mean by this? Earlier in the chapter the young man did not want to give up his wealth or possessions to the poor and follow Christ, and walked away sad, from which Jesus alludes that it would be hard for a rich man to be saved (enter the kingdom of God). So, I thought that eternal life was a gift of God not to be worked for (Romans 6:23)?  Who then is this 2nd group of people that Jesus is referring to in verse 29? And is this group in verse 29 the ‘last’ that will be ‘first’ that He is referring to in verse 30? Who was the ‘first’? Were the disciples the first? I am really confused. Maybe I am missing something here. Please help…. Evidently I am missing something here. Thank you so much.

Danielle

ANSWER: Hi Danielle,

Let me see if I can help you with your question.

Q:  In Matthew 19:27 Peter says (paraphrasing): Behold we have left all and followed you; what is our reward? Jesus then promises them that in the next world to come that they would receive their due reward. But then Jesus flips his response in verse 29 and seems to be addressing another group of people --- all who will leave their earthly relationships and possessions for a relationship with Him (for my sake). But He doesn’t say that these group of people (all who have left mother or father or brother or sister or lands, etc), and follows me____ instead He says that everyone who has left a relationship or possessions for His sake will obtain 100fold and eternal life.  

A:  Peter is basically asking the question, "What is the reward for those who give up possessions and relationships in this life for Christ's sake?" Jesus answers Peter by first addressing the disciples. In the next life, the disciples will be given a place of honor by sitting on twelve thrones and judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Then he addresses others. Anyone who sacrifices possessions or relationships for Christ in this life will be repaid one hundred fold, and will inherit eternal life.

Q:  Then He adds in verse 30 that the ‘first shall be last and the last shall be first’…what does He mean by this?

A:  Those who put themselves first in this life will find themselves in last place in the life to come. Those who place themselves last (and Christ first) will find themselves in first place in the life to come.

Q:  Earlier in the chapter the young man did not want to give up his wealth or possessions to the poor and follow Christ, and walked away sad, from which Jesus alludes that it would be hard for a rich man to be saved (enter the kingdom of God). So, I thought that eternal life was a gift of God not to be worked for (Romans 6:23)?  

A:  This is true, and this fact is confirmed in other portions of Scripture. (See Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5.) Jesus also makes the statement in verse 26, "With man, this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." His point is that we cannot save ourselves. Only God, in His grace and mercy, can save us. However, I believe that Jesus is also making a point of discipleship. While salvation is a free gift, there are rewards in heaven for those believers who make significant sacrifices in this life to follow Christ.

Q:  Who then is this 2nd group of people that Jesus is referring to in verse 29? And is this group in verse 29 the ‘last’ that will be ‘first’ that He is referring to in verse 30?

A:  This refers to anyone who will be a disciple of Christ.

Q:  Who was the ‘first’? Were the disciples the first?

A:  The disciples are probably being included as among those Jesus describes as "the first." But I believe He is also referring to anyone who makes sacrifices for Christ in this life. Those believers will receive special honor and rewards in heaven.

I hope that this helps. If you have further questions, please feel free to write back.

Scott

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Scott,
Yes but did Jesus ever actually imply (addressing the second group of people) that this means physically leaving their parent's house, or whoever their relation or family member's house was to pursue a relationship with Christ? Would God ever call someone to permanently leave their parents or family or household members to go and serve Him, since these are gifts from God? As far as I know all born-again believers can worship God and have a relationship with Christ without literally forsaking their parents or siblings, family members, other relations, etc. I just want to know -- I am trying to get to something here, and I will explain to you later. Did Jesus mean that future disciples of Christ who would have left mother or father sister or brother or lands mean actually walking away from them to pursue a relationship with Him? I can understand if the Christian was being persecuted in those days (especially if they came from a Jewish background --- and this may have been difficult in most cases) but nowadays we can have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ our Savior in a household of unbelievers without interruption. So a disciple of Christ today, or a Christian reading this, did Jesus mean to actually forsake your home or dear loved ones to come and have a relationship with Him. Please I am trying to get to something here. Thanks.
Danielle

ANSWER: Ah, now I understand exactly what you're asking, Danielle. Thanks for the clarification.

No, I do not believe that Jesus is teaching that there is any virtue in leaving parents, family members, or friends, just for the sake of leaving. That isn't His point at all.

Keep in mind the historical context. Jesus of Nazareth, the perfect God-Man, promised Messiah, Annointed One, the Christ--He's physically here ... on earth ... right now! (Try to imagine that!) Those who believed who He was and were devoted to Him--to learning about Him, learning FROM Him, serving with Him, dedicating themselves to the same agenda--they spent TIME with Jesus. Those who were MOST devoted to Him left their homes, their jobs, their families, and their schedules to focus on Jesus. If Jesus were here today, wouldn't many of us want to do the same?

So when Jesus was physically on the earth sharing the gospel and introducing the kingdom, discipleship involved a very unique opportunity--that of direct involvement with Jesus that required sacrifice in other areas of life. These sacrifices included time, energy, finances, time spent with family, perhaps giving up a job.

Today, we are not required to leave our homes, our families, or our jobs to follow Jesus Christ. However, the principle of discipleship is still the same. Jesus should be our #1 priority. He should be the focus of our lives. His agenda should be our agenda, and we should be willing to serve Jesus Christ with our lives.

Now this COULD involve sacrifice. Suppose one chose to commit his life to Christ by becoming a pastor. This might involve leaving a job and leaving home to attend school. Furthermore, the work itself could be challenging and provide less income than another job might provide. Some serve Christ by moving far away to different lands and different cultures. Some even give their lives in service for Christ.

Salvation is a free gift. But discipleship requires adjustments and sometimes sacrifice. That's the point Jesus is making.

You said that, in asking this question, you were trying to get to something. Would you like to share with me your reason for asking the question? That would provide me with additional insight that might be helpful.

Scott



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Scott,
I don't know.....sometimes I wonder how God feels when He looks at mankind, you know??? I like to rationalize things, but this one....I had to look for an answer to. Yes, my original intention in asking this question was to get to something, or rather trying to 'prove' something. I am going to list some things here and I please want you as my brother in Christ to help me out and assess whether or not Matthew 19: 27-30 is being applied correctly according to Christ's teachings.
I worship in a church where the ministers:
1. They have all claimed to have received dreams and visions that they have been called of God to serve in the full-time ministry,
2. The ministers live together in communal living (1 brother and 2 sisters) in one house ----- this is the part that cripples my mind the most. They use Acts 2:44 as a basis for this.
3. All of the female ministers are forbidden from wearing any type of jewelry or accessorizing, including makeup. Only a wristwatch is permitted.
4. The ministry is comprised of full-time ministers who are celibate and have taken vows of celibacy because the ministry mandates celibacy, including absolute obedience to chief pastors
5. Married couples who enter the ministry are not allowed, once they enter the ministry (that translates to living in the faith home, the communal living site) are not allowed to perform their regular conjugal duties as ascribed by the Word of God. They have to give up their marital privileges once they enter the ministry. Is this scriptural?
6. The ministers who share their ministry together and live communally are ascetics, 100% ascetics
7. They all use Matthew 19:29 and Acts 2:44 as a basis for their ministry ---- they ditch their homes (some of the brother have left their wives and some of the sisters have left their husbands) because they say that God called them to the ministry to serve the Lord full-time. They are removed from their prior lives altogether. According to their testimonies prior to coming to the ministry they receives visions and dreams, or hear the Lord speak to them directly to forsake their homes, families, cars, occupations, earthly degrees (if they had any), friends, close relations, any, and all things which which keep them from joining the ministry. They also use give away all of their possessions that they have had throughout their lifetime to the church ministry. They are not to hold any earthly  possessions once they join the church ministry --- they are required to give everything away to the church.
8. The ministers mock theological degrees, and do not believe in such or that such is needed to teach the Word of God (what is a theological degree?)
9. The 'single' sisters are not allowed to marry a 'brother' even if they are interested in them. Celibacy must be maintained until the end.
10. The ministers tell us not mingle with other Christian groups (why do they tell us this?)

Some things are just too strange and I am tired of trying to scratch my head and rationalize whether this is right. Now, remember I am a new believer....it's like I feel like I am being taken advantage of because I am young --- maybe this is the case.....am I headed down Christianity here, or something else? Have you ever seen a church ministry like this? I just want to know...really, I mean, it's just gone on too far in my mind, and somehow there's got to be an explanation for everything. Please let me know --- I think that my conviction by the Holy Spirit is one too much, and I just now need answers.
Please do not laugh at me...this is a serious issue.
Danielle

Answer
Don't worry, Danielle. I would not laugh at you. This is a serious matter, and I understand your concern.

Just recently, I received a question from someone else (I believe from Nigeria) who had very similar concerns. It wouldn't surprise me if she attended a church just like the one you describe. (If you like, you can look up my recent posts and read the question I answered for Keisha.)

Let me begin by telling you that this does not sound like a healthy situation, spiritually. While these people probably think they're doing the right thing, they are obviously misinterpreting Scripture. They have formulated a set of rules, much like the Pharisees, by which to measure their spirituality. And they force others to abide by these rules to achieve spirituality, even though there is no solid backing from the Bible regarding their position.

Let me address your concerns individually:

1. They have all claimed to have received dreams and visions that they have been called of God to serve in the full-time ministry

I am highly skeptical of this claim. The problem with this statement is that they claim spiritual authority, but there's no way to disprove them. We're supposed to trust them because they claim God told them.

2. The ministers live together in communal living (1 brother and 2 sisters) in one house ----- this is the part that cripples my mind the most. They use Acts 2:44 as a basis for this.

The early Christians in Jerusalem regularly met in each other's homes to worship together. But this is certainly not a pattern for communal living. God's plan is the family--father, mother, children. The family unit is the building block for society. They are replacing it with something else. And 1 "brother" and 2 "sisters"??? Forgive me, but I have to wonder what goes on with one man and two women in one home.

3. All of the female ministers are forbidden from wearing any type of jewelry or accessorizing, including makeup. Only a wristwatch is permitted.

This is a Pharisaical rule--legalism--which is a bit extreme, in my opinion.

4. The ministry is comprised of full-time ministers who are celibate and have taken vows of celibacy because the ministry mandates celibacy, including absolute obedience to chief pastors

God does not mandate celibacy, even for pastors. In I Timothy and Titus, where Paul outlines the qualifications for an elder, he uses the phrase, "husband of one wife," or "one-woman man."

5. Married couples who enter the ministry are not allowed, once they enter the ministry (that translates to living in the faith home, the communal living site) are not allowed to perform their regular conjugal duties as ascribed by the Word of God. They have to give up their marital privileges once they enter the ministry. Is this scriptural?

Absolutely not!

6. The ministers who share their ministry together and live communally are ascetics, 100% ascetics

Pharisaism. Legalism.

7. They all use Matthew 19:29 and Acts 2:44 as a basis for their ministry ---- they ditch their homes (some of the brother have left their wives and some of the sisters have left their husbands) because they say that God called them to the ministry to serve the Lord full-time.

 God's desire is not to break up families. They are clearly misinterpreting these passages.

They are removed from their prior lives altogether. According to their testimonies prior to coming to the ministry they receives visions and dreams, or hear the Lord speak to them directly to forsake their homes, families, cars, occupations, earthly degrees (if they had any), friends, close relations, any, and all things which which keep them from joining the ministry.

 Joining the ministry typically does not require that one relinquish such things. They are trying to appear spiritual through needless sacrifice. And, again, they claim to have dreams so that no one can question the notion that God is telling them to do this. God would not tell them to do something that violates Scripture, so either they are lying when they make these claims, or they are deceived.

They also use give away all of their possessions that they have had throughout their lifetime to the church ministry. They are not to hold any earthly  possessions once they join the church ministry --- they are required to give everything away to the church.

 Foolishness. Nowhere does the Bible require such things.

8. The ministers mock theological degrees, and do not believe in such or that such is needed to teach the Word of God (what is a theological degree?)

A theological degree is simply a degree one earns for studying the Bible and Bible-related matters. It's an education, training. Having had such training, I can tell you that it gave me a much better understanding of the Bible, and the skills necessary to lead a church. Sounds like they could benefit from such training.

9. The 'single' sisters are not allowed to marry a 'brother' even if they are interested in them. Celibacy must be maintained until the end.

I find nothing in the Scriptures to condone this requirement.

10. The ministers tell us not mingle with other Christian groups (why do they tell us this?)

Most likely because you would learn that their ways are not Scriptural.


Danielle, despite the fact that you are young, and are a new believer, you have a great deal of insight. The problem is that, the longer you remain in a setting such as this, the more you will be conditioned to accept their teachings. My advice is to leave the church and find another one that faithfully teaches the Scriptures and does not focus so much on man-made rules.

Yes, you will be made to feel guilty for doing this. Guilt is a very effective way of manipulating people, and I'm sure they'll try to use this on you. But don't let them control you with guilt. Leave, find another church, and you will welcome the refreshing change of getting out from under their teaching.

Feel free to write back.

Scott