Expert: Scott Talbot - 1/9/2011

Question
Hi Scott,and a blessed Sunday to you. Today our pastor preached about the functions of the Holy Spirit. It's just the preaching today that reminded me of Acts 19: 1-7 (I guess this thought just came)and I just have a little bit of trouble with understanding whether or not the disciples in Acts 19 that the Apostle Paul had ‘encountered’ when he came to Ephesus had received the Holy Spirit (indwelling of the Holy Spirit) prior to correct baptism. And it irks me when I don’t understand Scriptures because I am so much in love with the Word of God. I am also wondering whether the Apostle Paul sensed some type of spiritual deficiency/a gift of the Spirit which was lacking in these disciples that he ‘questioned’ their receipt of the Holy Spirit ----- I am basing this off the fact that as believers the baptism in the Holy Spirit/being filled with the Holy Spirit enables or empowers the believer for special work of the ministry at a given time (examples: Acts 4:7-8, Acts 4:31, Acts 13:50-52*, and then even the example with Jesus as seen in Luke 4:1-2 before He was tempted by the deceiver, Satan). Now when I come to reread Acts 20, I am also wondering whether these same disciples that the Apostle Paul encountered when he came to Ephesus are the same elders that were ordained in the church at Ephesus in Acts 20; and my suspicions are high (Acts 20:15-17, 28-29, focusing on verse 28: ‘Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the HOLY SPIRIT HAS MADE YOU OVERSEERS, to shepherd the church of God….). Are these the same disciples that the Holy Spirit came upon (Acts 19:6) that had now become the elders at the church in Ephesus??? Was Paul’s ‘encounter’ with them (obviously it wasn’t an encounter; Paul was being led of the Spirit when he asked them: Acts 19:2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”) meant to prepare them for ministry and is this why he asked them this question??? And like I stated above, did Paul note some type of spiritual deficiency/their lack of a gift of the Spirit that he asked them this question???
The first Christians were disciples in Antioch in Syria (Acts 11:25-26). The people that Paul and Barnabas preached to from their missionary journey to Antioch in Pisidia, Iconium, Lystra, and Derbe became disciples (believers in Jesus Christ) and were appointed by Paul and Barnabas as elders in every church. Since this is all true, could it be that these very disciples that Paul encountered in Ephesus became the elders at the church of Ephesus that we read of in Acts 20???)
And so then back to my original question (and I am trying to reason out the Scriptures here ---- please bear with me): did they receive the Holy Spirit prior to correct baptism?? The very fact that Paul says: “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” confirms John 7:37-39*, focusing on vs. 39, 1 Corinthians 12:13 --- we as believers became baptized into the body of believers; i.e. the body of Christ through receipt of the Holy Spirit, and especially Ephesians 1:13-14, which is the ultimate proof that we receive the Holy Spirit after we believe in Christ or accept salvation).
Obviously these disciples would not have been called disciples EXCEPT they believed in Jesus as the Christ, and obviously, immediately upon receipt of Paul’s statement (Acts 19:4), they knew what type of baptism that Paul was referring to that they needed for baptism in the Holy Spirit, and henceforth got baptized into the name of Jesus (verse 5; also signifying that they were true disciples and believed, otherwise, they would not have gotten baptized; reference Acts 8:36-38)…..
Acts 20:4 echoes Matthew 3:11 and again, also confirms John 7: 37-39.  Acts 19:6 says that after Paul laid hands on them, ‘the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.’ So the manifestation of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:7-11) took place and the gift of the Spirit was revealed after hands were laid on them. The fact that the Holy Spirit ‘came upon them’ also proves what Jesus  told the 12 disciples in Acts 1:8 “But ye shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses….” Based on what Jesus declared, is this why Paul originally asked them whether they had received the Holy Spirit…..maybe he saw that the power was not there….. Did he need evidence…??
I really need with Acts 19: 1-7. I know that this is a rather long e-mail, but I really need to know what I can learn from what this passage of the Scriptures is teaching, including whether or not these disciples actually did receive the Holy Spirit (indwelling of the Holy Spirit) and that they just didn’t know it. I believe that I have done my homework to the best of my ability (by the grace of God) by searching the Scriptures.
So if you don’t mind, could you help me out with my questions??  I would appreciate it. Also Scott, why did they speak in tongues and then prophesy??? I thought that prophecy and tongues were two separate functions of the Holy Spirit and that prophesy serves best, especially when tongues cannot be interpreted, and that it is distinct from tongues (according to 1 Corinthians 14: 1-5, 6,9,11-13). Those of the circumcision who were with Peter when he preached to Cornelius’ household understood what the Gentile converts spoke when they were speaking in tongues in Acts 10. Obviously it was a language that could be interpreted, or else how then did they hear them what they were speaking (same instance in Acts 2:3-4, 5-11)?? Since the disciples in Acts 19 prophesied after they spoke in tongues, can we assume that the tongues that these disciples spoke could not be deciphered amongst themselves, and so could not be interpreted, and  so that’s why they ended up prophesying afterwards?? Could this manifestation of the gift of the Spirit maybe meant to prepare them for functions in the church as elders (assuming that these were the same elders in chap. 20) /for edification of the church, according to 1 Corinthians 14: 1-5??? I am just pondering on this as well…….
Okay, I am so, so sorry; I know that this is quite deep, but thank you so much for your time.
Nicole

Answer
Hi Nicole,

The issue of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts is a bit tricky to understand, due to the fact that this was a transition period. Following the ministry, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God ushered in a whole new way of dealing with mankind.

Some refer to this as the "New Testament," or "New Covenant" that God established with mankind. They were no longer under the Law. God had created an entirely new institution called the local church. God was now dealing directly with Jews and Gentiles alike. Mankind looks back to the finished work of Christ rather than anticipating it at some point in the future. And the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the lives of all believers was now a new way of God's dealing with mankind.

Whenever God established a new method of dealing with mankind (one that built upon previous methods), there was new revelation, as well as miraculous signs to clearly identify that this new message was of God.

When you look at the baptism of the Holy Spirit in Acts, it's important to understand that God chose to reveal this phenomenon in several stages to several key groups of people. Among His reasons are the fact that He wanted to make it clear that 1) This was a new thing; 2) This was from God; and 3) This was for the Jews and Gentiles alike.

So the example you shared needs to be understood in this context. While all believers today receive the Holy Spirit immediately at the time of salvation, this example in Acts was one of those occurances in which Paul and others were conscious of the fact that God was unfolding His new plan in stages ... thus the question of whether or not they had received the Holy Spirit. The tongues and prophesying were miraculous events which confirmed that God was the author of these events.

I hope that this answers your question. If you would like to discuss further, feel free to write back.

Scott