Expert: Mel and Guyna Horne - 7/29/2011

Question
QUESTION: hello sir,i'm a 20 years old male.sir ,for couple of months i have been trying to find the true religion,the real god.i'm quite curious and want to find out does god really exist and if he exists ,which religion is the correct one.sir what i want to know is not about christianity but i would like to know why do you think that this is the real religion chosen by god himself.what proves that this religion is the chosen one.i would be very grateful if you could help me in making the right choose.thank you.

ANSWER: Dear Sir,
Thank you for reminding us of these events.  We are aware of the three or four incidents you mention (among a few from other sources) as they are often used to deny Islamic violence.

What we were referring to are all the other events, including the use of extreme torture, documented by Arab historians, for example, some of which are listed at

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/dead_poets.htm

When you submitted your question, you said that you were "trying to find the true religion, the real God".  We could not do that if we defended "Christianity" as it is practiced by many in the world.  
Neither can anyone find truth if they defend Islam against the realities of what the Qur'an says and what Muslims, including Muhammad, did. God is above all the evil that men do, and above the lying is done to justify themselves.  He is above all the religions that have been created
by men.

To clarify our first response:

What we were referring to in our response, is the frequent, sometimes daily, revenge killings in Iraq and elsewhere, of Shiites by Sunnis, and of Sunnis by Shiites, all in the name of Islam.

One Islamic argument is that Moses repeated God's instruction of an eye for an eye. About 1,400 years later, Christ said his message from God is that it is better to forgive and leave revenge up to God. And, nowhere in the Bible is anything about using torture against anyone.
About 600 years after Christ, Muhammad, according to Arab historians, preached and practiced revenge for military, political and personal reasons.

The latter is not a matter of opinion or debate, but a matter of history.

The former is a matter of almost daily news.

For example, 200 "Afghan Muslims crossed the border and attacked Pakistani Muslims as revenge for the death of Bin Laden".  See New York Times article, June 1, 2011, at http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/02/world/asia/02pakistan.html

For a daily update of the almost daily violence, see list at  http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

"Muslim Mobs in Egypt Attack Christian Homes, Threaten Priest", June 28, 2011 (CDN)  at
http://www.crosswalk.com/news/religion-today/muslim-mobs-in-egypt-attack-christi

"Muslim seminary students torture a 19year old Christian for five days to force him to convert to Islam"
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=24641

"Sudan Muslims loot church buildings, torture and kill Christians", June 17, 2011
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/sudan-muslims-declare-jihad-loot-church-buildi

And in today's news, "Syrian security forces fires on funeral procession, killing 10 mourners" (who were trying to bury victims of previous shootings).
http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20110719/a64bd545-56a4-4ccf-8902-f35341

We know that not all Muslims approve of violence, but those who do are quoting verbatim from the Qur'an and hadith.  

And violence in the name of Islam is regularly occurring in every nation where there are Muslims.
See list at http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Regardless of what any other religion does or does not do, when the followers of Islam stop being violent toward their enemies, toward each other, and toward women, then we shall be happy to acknowledge that it is a religion of peace.  

Until that time, it is what it is.  

And that is very sad, because we are all brothers as sons of Noah, as sons of Adam, and ultimately, as sons of God (Allah).

Peace to you and your family,

Sincerely,
Mel and Guyna




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: hello sir,there are couple of more things i would like to know about christianity.first of all, what are the methods of prayers in christianity, for example in islam we offer 5 times prayers and there are other types of religious prayers.so i want to know how often do christians pray and what are the methods of prayers.and the other thing i would like to know is that,does bible have any relation with science.since i'm a science student and a big believer of it, i would like to know, what bible says about science and does bible have text in it which predicts things which science has just proven now.

ANSWER: Hello Sir,

Methods and content of prayers vary with the denomination.  

Catholics have specific ritual prayers that are said at "masses".  Anglican and Episcopal basically consider themselves to be Catholic and their church services (mass) are very similar to Catholic.  
From our personal experience, Protestant denominations differ from the Catholic by degrees.  The Lutheran and Methodist most resemble the Catholic, while Baptist, Pentecostal and non-denominational may have only a brief opening and closing prayer, with occasional group prayers led by the preacher for special needs of individuals, the local group or the victims of disasters.  
(For more specific descriptions of the prayers of any particular denomination, we suggest that you contact someone on allexperts who is listed as an expert in that denomination.)

While they all, also encourage private prayers, the Catholics most often use ritual prayers that are scripts that are repeated verbatim.  Protestant churches have some simple prayers for children to recite at bedtime and some for adults to say just before eating a meal.
 
Personal prayers are encouraged to be said silently in a group setting, and when alone, either silently or aloud. However, Catholics are often required to repeat scripted prayers, silently, for a specific number of times, with variations depending on the day of the week.  Prayer beads (the rosary) help them keep count during the repetition.  Apparently, there are also variations according to which diocese one lives in.

The Catholic prayers can be seen at http://rosary.virtualave.net/
That page links to the variations.   Services are held two or three times daily, but it is expected that a person will attend only one per day. 

In contrast to this, Christ, as a messenger from God, said that we should never use ritual prayers and that we should pray in private. [We have added notes to the following Bible verses, according to the original Greek text, and for clarification.]  Notice that what is instructed below is often not what "christians" do.   

You asked about Christianity, but also about truth.  Sadly, they are not always the same thing.
 
"And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues [places of meetings, churches, temples, cathedrals, etc.] and in the corners of the streets [public, prominent places], that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. [In other words, that is all the reward they shall get.  They are full of vanity.]
But you, when you pray, enter into your closet [your private room], and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly.  [Other verses show that God looks for humility in us, the absence of pride and vanity.]
But when you pray, use not vain [empty, worthless] repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Be not you therefore like unto them: for your Father knows what things you have need of, before you ask him.

After this manner [in this way] therefore pray you:  [In other words, in this format, but not empty repetitions of the same words over and over]

"Our Father which are in heaven, Hallowed be your name."  [first, acknowledge God and give praise to his name]

"Thy kingdom come."    [Pray that God will establish his kingdom soon, to end all suffering and tears, and to bring peace to all people.]

"Your will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.  [Satan is the 'prince of the earth" at this time.  He will be replaced soon and then God will bring peace to the earth. Pray that his will be done, not ours.]

Give us this day our daily bread."  [God already knows, but he still wants us to ask for the things we need, in order for us to learn faith and to draw close to him.]

"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors." [This is referring to sins, the debt of death that we owe God. "Forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us."  Other verses show that unless we forgive all others, God will not forgive us (v. 14-15).  Repentance of our sins is a daily matter.]

"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil [lead us away from temptation, deliver us from "the evil one" - Satan, pray for protection, physically and spiritually]

For yours is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.  [close by praising God again. It keeps everything else in proper perspective]

Amen. ["so be it"] "  (Matthew 6:5-13).


The format above, as given by God's messenger, is:

1. Praise God for all his glory, greatness, and gifts to us  (there are many choices here, how many one mentions depends upon how much time one has for the prayer.  True praise can include saying "thank you, Father" for life, health, intelligence, family, friends, opportunities, blessings, and protection.  If we are specific, there is a lot to thank Him for every day.)

2. God has a purpose for all mankind.  It is revealed in the Bible, but many have accepted myths and denominational doctrines rather than accept what the Bible says.  We are to meditate on that plan.

3. Think about and pray about God's taking control of human affairs to the extent that we can no longer commit evil upon ourselves or one another. 

4. Ask for the things we need.  Notice this was not the first thing to mention, nor the last.  It comes after God, his plan and the needs of the world.

5. Ask for forgiveness of sins "as" we have forgiven others.  Revenge is God's to administer, not ours.  It is a father's responsibility to protect his children from danger and from one another if necessary. He is the Father, we are his children.

6. Ask for protection, especially from the temptation to sin, but also protection from evil and the evil one.

7. Conclude with praise for God. [This does not meant to chant "Praise God" or "Praise the Lord". Real praise would be giving thanks and expressing appreciation for all that God has created: beauty, laughter, love of parents, romance, love of children, love of friends, music, colors, animals, food, the beauty of the earth and the stars, and everything else that is good in the universe. 

Other verses speak of being "continually in prayer".  To be in that state of mind requires a constant awareness that God omnipresent (everywhere) and that he knows our thoughts and our attitudes, and that everything we think, say and do is being witnessed by Him, by hundreds of millions of angels and by other beings who are described in scripture. 

To have that state of mind, of having an "open line" to him at all times, means that we can call on him for help or deliverance from danger or problems at any moment, instantly.
 
There are verses that talk about putting the needs and welfare of others ahead of self.  If we are praying for God to bless, help, heal or deliver others, then it puts our own problems in perspective and helps prevent depression and discouragement. 

There is more but we do not want to overwhelm you since this is apparently all new information for you. 



Regarding your questions about the Bible and science:

Science is a religion for some people who reject creation and insist that all life, matter and energy in the universe is an accident of time and chance.  If we accept the Big Bang and evolution in place of God, then they are "idols" and we are guilty of idolatry. 

Since God created everything, all the sciences are simply man's discoveries of the details of His creation.

I do not recall that the Bible mentions "science" in general, but it does make statements related to several of the sciences separately.  It also talks about truth and condemns falsely-called sciences such as astrology, sorcery, palm-reading and fortune tellers. 


You asked, "does the bible have text in it which predicts things which science has just proven now."

We do not have a complete list available at the moment but we can work on that for you.

Regarding astronomy, Job 26:7 says that the earth is "suspended on nothing", a round orb, just as the sun and moon appear. This book appears is dated from 1700-1600 BC. Job worshiped the God of Abraham.  Others believed that the earth was flat and floated on the ocean.   Eratosthenes, (295-197 BC), using the sun, calculated the circumference of the earth, as a globe, to within 2% of accuracy.
It was not until the late 1400's that a round earth was proven by circumnavigation.


Regarding medical surgery and bone transplants, Genesis describes how Adam was created from dust, but Eve was created from a rib removed from Adam.  Transplant of body parts is a relative new science for man.  [However, man cannot create life in any form, one of the proofs of creation.]  (Some, even among the religious leaders and teachers think this was another of many "folk stories" told just as allegory.   In effect, they are calling God a liar and demonstrating that they have no faith.)

Regarding botany, zoology and biology, Genesis says that God created plants and animals to reproduce "after their own kind".  Some animals can crossbreed, but the offspring are still within the same family or genus, and usually infertile or sterile.   For instance, a horse and a donkey will produce a mule, usually sterile, which also in the Equus genus, Equidae family. 

But as a rule, each "kind" reproduces itself, cows produce cows, birds produce birds, fish produce fish and humans produce humans (some of which are foolish enough to think otherwise.)


Regarding genetics, DNA and inherited characteristics, in Gen. 18:19, the Lord said, "For I know him [Abraham], that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he has spoken of him."
DNA was not discovered until the 1800's and human behavioral genetics is still a new field of study.  There are four indicators that behavior has some biological basis.
See:  http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/behavior.shtml

"Genes can be the common factor of the qualities of most human-inherited traits. Study of human genetics can be useful as it can answer questions about human nature, understand the diseases and development of effective disease treatment, . . ."
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_genetics


The God of Abraham commanded that we are not to eat blood, because "the life is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:10-11).  It was not until the 1800's that several Germans discovered that blood carries oxygen to the body's cells.  

It was after this, that it was also discovered that blood carries pathogens that can cause disease.  Today, apart from medical transfusions where the blood is tested, raw blood is considered a biohazard and must be handled as toxic waste.


The God of Abraham prohibited the eating of swine (Lev. 11:7, Deu. 14:8).  It was not until the 1800's that it was discovered that three species of the trichna worm, found in raw or undercooked pork (and bear meat) can cause severe illness and death.  Since the 1990's this has been a reemerging disease.

I know that there are more, but this is about all that I can recall at the moment.


Some things to think about in the context of the Bible and science:

According to the "laws of science":

      Life cannot come from non-life, yet our world is filled with life forms, requiring a Life-Giver.

      Energy and matter cannot be created or destroyed, only modified.  Yet the universe is full of energy and matter, requiring a Creator with powers beyond the physical world.

      Despite splitting the atom into three parts,  identifying the elementary particles (quarks and leptons), confirming four of six proposed Bosons, and hypothesizing ten superpartners from winos to squarks, we still have not found the basic building block for matter.  We read once, that at least one scientist had said that the ultimate particle may be spirit. 

     The Big Bang says that all matter and energy came into existence at one moment when a mass was compressed by some force and then ignited.  No explanation is given for where the mass originated, how it was compressed in the absence of all forces and how it was ignited in the absence of energy. No explanation is given for how all this happened before the existence of all the "laws of science", which contradict every element of  the Big Bang theory.

 Evolutionists say that all the laws of science just suddenly came into being. This is a self-contradiction.

Science, apart from the (unscientific) theory of evolution, actually confirms that there is a Creator, Designer, Law-giver and Sustainer.


We hope that this helps in some way.

Peace to your and your family.

Sincerely,
Mel and Guyna
     


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: hello sir,
         uptil now you have helped me alot in understanding Christianity.i need your help again.in search of true religion,i forgot the very basic question i used to keep asking myself, "IF EVEN GOD EXISTS".the explantion i was given for His existence was that how is it possible that this universe and the life form in it can come to existence on its own.such complex system must be controlled by someone but my question is if this complexity can't come to existence on its own how is it possible that God who must be much more complex than its creation can come to being on its own.i was told that God has always been there and no one came before him.who is His creator.please help me.

Answer
Hello Sir,

The Bible gives us all the information we need to obtain eternal life in God's kingdom.
However, it does not give all knowledge of all things at this time.

There is a statement by the Apostle Paul, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they [and we] are without excuse:"  (Rom. 1:20). [The context is to avoid worshiping idols, animals, or the creation itself, but the statement is made that we can understand even God's power and his nature by the things we can see around us.]

Because everything we "see" is an aspect of some cycle (evaporation > condensation > evaporation; soil > plants (food) > soil; annual cycles of earth, moon and sun; (birth) child > parent > child > parent), it is logical to imagine some kind of cycle with God.

Mainstream Christianity teaches that the holy spirit of God is the third being (a personality) in a trinity.  Not all who worship the God of Abraham believe in a trinity.  More than a few understand the Holy Spirit to be the power of God by which he creates and sustains everything.  It was by the power of the holy spirit that Jesus Christ was begotten in a human mother.  The Jewish scholars and priests thought, and still do, that the promised Messiah would be born of two human parents, not the son of a God and a woman, but they missed the point.
Which is more difficult, to create a man from dirt or to create a man inside of a woman's womb? They believed the former but not the latter.

What we see is God creating man from dirt and water with the ability of reproduction.  Same for the plants and animals.

What we also see is the family unit in animals and humans, but that unit is of far more significance to humans.

We see that God calls himself a Father, and calls us his children (Mat. 5:9), his sons and daughters (2Cor. 6:18).  The family unit was created by God (Gen. 2:24) to teach us about relationships, husband/wife, parent/child, sibling/sibling.  
The "church" (the people or assembly of people, not a building or a corporation) is called the "bride" of Christ.  The Lord "put away" (divorced) the nation of Israel because of her fornication with false gods.  He prophesied that he would be  reconciled to her in the future.  [Note: If we accept the sacrifice of Christ as payment for our past sins, then we are spiritual children of Abraham and heir to all the covenant promises made to him.  Paul explained that "there is neither Jew nor Gentile" (we are all the children of God) (Gal. 3:28).]

We see God using his holy spirit to beget a child in a human woman, and who grew up without committing any sins, thereby being qualified to sacrifice his life for our sins and enable us to have eternal life in God's kingdom.

We see that we are less than the angels now, but when we are changed into immortal, spirit beings, we shall rule above the angels (Psa. 8:4-6, 1Cor. 6:3).

We see that God will put "all things" under the rule of his Son (except himself).   We also see that we are called "brethren" (brothers) of Christ who is the "firstborn of many brethren (brothers, sisters)" (Rom. 8:29).

We see that we are to rule with Christ in his throne (Rev. 3:21).

With all this, we see one who came from God, was born as a human, achieved perfection of character, died, and was resurrected as a spirit being, who will rule with God.   And, we see that all of us who repent of our sins, put them away and produce good works (love, forgiveness, patience, etc.) will also rule with Christ, as our "older (spiritual) brother".

Therefore, we can see a **possible cycle** of (physical) man > (spirit) God > (physical) man > . . . ).     

It is logical, but not provable at this time, and some, perhaps many, would reject based on various statements in scripture, none of which clearly say that it can not, or will not, happen this way.  

In effect, we came from God (through the creation of Adam) and we have the opportunity to return to God as spirit beings.  The physical pattern (and parallel) is that we come from a human father, beginning as simple cells, grow, are "born", continue growing, maturing to adults, and eventually achieve the same role as our physical father.

If the future is a reflection of the past (e.g. "history repeats itself"), then it would be logical to assume that perhaps the cycle is: physical human > messiah (a spirit being "born again" of a woman) > God (who creates physical humans (who have the potential to become God).

We realize that some might consider this as heresy or blasphemy, but we doubt that they could offer any better theories.

This has to assume that God is a family and not just a single, unique being.  

Christ talked about a unity of mind between himself and the Father, praying that all of us who believe the truth would also "be one" as he and the Father are "one" (Jn. 17:11, 22).   [The mainstream belief is that there is a trinity, a three-in-one being with three distinct personalities, a confusing definition and an attempt to avoid accusations of polytheism while trying to harmonize various scriptures that are contradictory to mainstream doctrines.]

 In summary, if we are to understand God "nature and Godhead" by the things we see, then it should somehow be part of a repeating cycle.

We have to consider this, "You are my witnesses, says the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." (Isa. 43:10).  

We are told in scriptures that the one who became Jesus Christ, existed with God the Father before the world was formed (Jn. 17:5, 2Tim. 1:9, 1Pet. 1:20).  We are also told that God created everything by the one who became Jesus Christ (Eph. 3:9, Col. 1:16).
 
In Gen. "And God [elohiym, plural] said, Let us make man in *our* image, after *our* likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." (Gen. 1:26).  
However, there are numerous scriptures saying there is only "one" God and even Islam teaches that.

Christ's prayer to the Father in Jn. 17, repeated twice for emphasis, said "that they may be one as we are one".  All who follow God cannot be one being, but can be of one mind. And, if many (us), being of one mind can be considered to be "one" rather than many, then the Father and the Son, equaling two, but being of one mind can also be "one" God, without the aspect of polytheism.
The key being that the oneness refers to a family, not a single individual, but a family that is single minded, not divided as humans are, or as false gods are.

With that in mind, then the statement that "no God was formed before me" could be understood to refer to the one God family, and not to the Father as an individual. Otherwise, the statement that "no God will be formed after me" would contradict "You are gods" (Psa. 82:6, Jn. 10:33-36, below).


An alternative view, often expressed by mainstream believers, is that God exists outside of time and space, and is not subject to time as we understand it.  This appears to be more of an excuse for not answering the beginning of God, rather than an explanation.  How can one who is "without beginning and without end", not have lived forever into the past?  Future and past indicate a time line.  Any other concept that denies a time line, is limited to a loop, which is a cycle, back where we started, above.


A factor to keep in mind is that while we can imagine and discuss things beyond the physical realm, we are rather limited in our current knowledge of the dimension of the spirit world where the laws of physics do not apply.
Christ told his disciples ("students") that, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now."
Part of what they could not yet "bear" yet was revealed in Revelation, about 60 years later, through John.

He also promised that the spirit of God, the spirit of truth (Jn. 16:13), would lead us into "all truth", not just parts of it.   Understanding the truth is a process, not just an event.
The more we study, while praying for understanding, the more we have come to understand.

In the meantime, while we cannot be sure that God is part of a cycle, or is a mystery currently beyond physical understanding, we do know this -- that we have been given the understanding of how to obtain eternal life, so that, eventually, we shall not only understand God but be like him.  The offspring grow up to be identical to the parents. 

"I have said, You are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." (Psa. 82:6).

"Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him"
Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me?
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God.
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods?
If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say you of him, whom the Father has sanctified, and sent into the world, You blaspheme; because I said, I am the Son of God?
If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
But if I do, though you believe not me, believe the works: that you may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." (Jn. 10:31-38).

"For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." (1Cor. 13:9-12).

"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not.
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure." (1Jn. 3:1-3).

Since we are supposed to understand what we cannot see, by the things we do see, then our understanding of God must be based on some kind of cycle, unless or until God reveals more information to us.

Consideration  of this question has led us to other questions, such as, What was God doing "for ever", before he created the earth and our universe?  

Was he doing experiments, creating beta versions?  Is that what the Neanderthals were?  Beta versions without the frontal lobes, causing them to have a low sloping forehead, and limiting their ability for planning, reasoning and abstract thought?  Was the world of dinosaurs a beta version of what we have today?

Are his pre-Adam experimentation and test models the explanation of the difference between the 6,000 years age of the earth based on the usual interpretation of Genesis, and the 4.1 to 4.2 billion years of scientific dating of rocks?  This explanation is called the "Gap theory" -- that there is a considerable time gap between Gen. 1:1 and Gen. 1:2.


We will not pretend to know what we do not know yet.  That would be a form of lying, which is forbidden.  We look forward to fully understanding the answers to these questions.  

In the meantime, our personal opinions are based on what we do understand. The answers to these and other questions do not affect the message of salvation -- the obtaining of eternal life.

We hope that we have helped your understanding in some way.  If you wish to discuss this further or have other questions, we look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Mel and Guyna