Expert: Marilyn - 8/6/2007

Question
I have a question for you Marilyn,

And individual who posted this response to me a few days ago, his response about the four Gospels of the New Testament went like this...............

ALLAH(swt) or G-d cannot lie. even if you don't believe His Hallowed name as Ayesu(saws) said was Allah or Allaha Arabs are referring to the Creator, Owner, and Cherisher of all we see and don't see. in your speak G-d cannot lie. your belief that Jesus died and rose again is based on 4 statements from 4 different men that say for different things, and a myth woven into those 4 contradicting statements. read your 4 Gospels closely. you will see that they are not congruent. they all say 4 different things happened just before and after the crucifiction. therein you will find your man-made lies. in the Bible Ayesu(saws) the man you call Jesus says he is sent by a commandment from G-d to say certain thing, to deliver a message. Al-Quran says he was appointed as a Messenger too, but a special messenger to the children of Ysrael, Israel, Asrae however you want to spell it.

THE 4 Gospel writers were not witnesses to anything. they are 4 PSEUDOGRAPHICAL or unknown people. these 4 unknown people were sent on missions by the Church or ruler of Rome to procure information, accounts, or stories about this great man. they were kind of like mercenaries execept they weren't hired to kill. they were hired to write a story. these 4 writers all lived and wrote at different times. they did not live at the same time and witness the same thing then wrote it down. this is why they all describe events in four different ways. when you look into the bottom of it all Bible scholars believe at least one probably two writers used Q to write what they wrote due to the contents of these 2 Gospels. I'm not going to lay it all out here, you can read it on Wiki's page and other books by authors. anyhow back to what I was saying...4 Gospel writers were not witnesses to anything, they went out to the country and surrounding countries Ayesu's(saws) story unfolded at. they wrote down things he was quoted as saying. I believe this Q document is what contains his acutal words and teachings. muslims call this the Injil [en - jeel]. as 1st centuy Rome was into Sun Worship what they did was have a story containing all the elements of the Sun's movement through the heavens written around the teachings of Ayesu(saws) that come from this one document Christians call Q and muslims call the Injil.
Allaha, Elohim, Alllah, El are all variations of the same ONE. in "Journal of Bible and Religion" Vol. 33, No. 1 (Jan., 1965), p. 76 you will find The Gospels, Portraits of Christ by Wayne G. Rollins who explains that the Gospel writers were hired hands sent out to procure information to compose the Gospels Sonero. the fact that Bible scholars relegate the 4 Gospels to the category of "pseudographia" should be a very big clue to you that the four writers were not witnesses to anything Ayesu(saws) said or did. you know that "one" Gospel you mentioned we'd all have if it weren't for the four? that's the Q Gospel. I believe it would be the Gospel according to Jesus or Jesus' Gospel if it wasn't called Q. in all your Christian life the thought never crossed your mind 'why don't we have the Gospel according to Jesus?' let's get back to the contents of these Gospels because I recall you made the statement "there is no confusion in the Gospels"...you did say that didn't you? and you did say I was the one who is confused. please do this for me as you are the one who is not confused regarding this matter of crucifiction Sonero....examine Matt 28:1-5, Mark 16:1-6, Luke 24:1-16, John 20:1-18 to read what the 4 so-called witnesses wrote about the Mary finding the empty tomb. finally, please read Matt 28:12-20, Mark 16:9-20, Luke 24:40-53, John 20:19 thru John 21:25 about the ascension. I submit to you it's possible for 4 witnesses to give various accounts of the same incident. when they start saying they all saw 4 different things is where the CONFUSION comes from. you stated there is no confusion in these Gospels. well pal the passages I have cited for you here are tantamount to pure confusion. they are not various accounts of the same incidents. they are 4 accounts describing 4 completely different things that supposedly happened.


I was wondering if you could shed some light on this as to how I could respond to him about this false information


Answer

1)  Allah is the singular form of Elohim, which is a latent plural Name indicating a minimum of Three Persons in One. Allah and Elohim are not one and the same.

2)  What or who is Ayesu(saws)?  The best I can discover is it means Man(flesh) and I think it refers to Jesus.  Islam does not recognize the divinity of Jesus; He’s just a prophet.  In the Koran Jesus is called Isa, son of Marium.

3)  Where is this person’s documentation to prove the writers of the Gospels are NOT the persons credited as having written them?  Luke was a physician, friend of the Apostle Paul, who interviewed people, that is eyewitnesses, to compile his account.  It is my understanding that Luke did not personally know Jesus.  This would make him the only Gospel writer who was not an eyewitness.  The other writers were all Apostles of Jesus, knowing Him well.  Where is the documentation proving they were not who they’ve been billed to be?

5)  My research shows that certain “scholars” have speculated that since three Gospels are so dramatically similar, Matthew, Mark and Luke, that Matthew and Luke borrowed heavily from Mark and from some other lost Gospel text.  (Gee, you’d think they’d say, “Oh, they’re similar because they’re writing about the same Person and events, wouldn’t you?)  German researchers labeled this proposed “lost” text “Quelle,” which means “Source.”  However, no Gospel writer referred to any such text, no Christian writer of the early church referred to any such a text and no evidence, not even a fragment of such a text has ever been found.  The “Q Gospel” is imaginary; it’s a hypothetical document!

Unfortunately, bad and bogus scholars exist in all fields, and that includes Christian theology.  This person’s assertion “all Bible scholars believe at least one probably two writers used Q” is so obviously wrong it would be almost laughable were it not for the fact his mortal soul may depend upon what he has chosen to believe.

6)  This person asserts that eyewitnesses to the same event will give different accounts.  If that’s the case then what is his problem with the biblical accounts of the ascension?  Each writer remembers different details.  As to the part about the Marys visiting the tomb, this is an event which was not witnessed by the writers, and is, admittedly, the most confusing.  Here’s some light on the events from some sure-enough, real Bible scholars:

According to my Scofield Bible:  “Combining the four narratives, the order of events on the resurrection morning would seem to be as follows:  In the early morning, the women went to the tomb of Jesus to anoint His body, even though they did not know how they could get into the tomb (Mark 16:2 & 3).  There were the three, Mary Magdalene, Mary (the mother of James, Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10), and Salome, followed by other women who accompanied Jesus from Galilee (Luke 23:55-24:1).  The three women found the stone had been removed by an angel (Matthew 28:2).  Mary Magdalene hurried to tell Peter and John, who ran toward the tomb (John 20:2-4).  Meanwhile, Mary the mother of James, Salome, and then the other women arrived at the tomb, entered it and saw the angels who assured them Jesus had risen.  They ran from the tomb in fear and joy to inform His disciples (Matthew 28:8).  Peter and John arrived at the tomb, entered, observed and left (John 20:4-10).  Mary Magdalene returned to the tomb, stood weeping, and Jesus revealed Himself to her (John 20:11-18).  As the other women were on their way to tell His disciples, Jesus appeared to them (Matthew 28:9 & 10).

“During the forty days between His resurrection and ascension, the Lord Jesus is recorded to have appeared to His own followers on ten occasions, the first five of these being on the day of resurrection.  The order of appearances are:  (1) to Mary Magdalene (Mark 16:9-11; John 20:11-18); (2) to the women returning from the tomb with the angelic message (Matthew 28:8-10); (3) to Peter, probably in the afternoon (Luke 24:34; I Corinthians 15:5); (4) to the Emmaus disciples toward evening (Mark 16:12; Luke 24:13-32); (5) to the disciples, Thomas being absent (Mark 16:14; Luke 24:36-43; John 20:19-25); (6) on the next Sunday night, the appearance to the disciples, Thomas being present, (John 20:26-31; I Corinthians 15:5); (7) to the seven beside the Sea of Galilee (John 21); (8) to the Apostles and “more than five hundred of the brothers” (Matthew 28:16-20; Mark 16:15-18; I Corinthians 15:6); (9) to James, the Lord’s half-brother (I Corinthians 15:7) and (10) His last recorded appearance and His ascension from Olivet (Mark 16:19 & 20; Luke 24:44-53; Acts 1:3-12).”  

7)  This person refers to the “Q Gospel” as the Injil.  My research nets total confusion about exactly what the Injeel is.  Some say it is the New Testament, others say it is only the four Gospels and others have a completely different opinion, apparently, this person’s being one of them.

8)  Lily Tomlin had a character named Edith Ann.  My favorite Edith Ann quote is:  “The truth can be made up if you know how.”  And apparently Mohammed really knew how.

My totally NOT politically correct view on Mohammed and Islam, which might infuriate some people:  My research into Mohammed (who initially wasn’t as successful at raiding as he’d liked to have been) has revealed a bandit who wanted respect from the Jews and Christians around him.  He listened to their stories and copied them down in his own, unique versions, renaming things and people as he saw fit, creating a new religion based on theirs.  

Mohammed lived circa 570 A.D., hundreds of years after the Gospels were written.  During this time when he was trying to get in with the “in” crowd, he said things like, my paraphrase, “respect people of the book,” meaning respect Jews and Christians.  But after they rejected his new, “improved” (i.e. “uncorrupted”) version of their religions, he was enraged and his quotes changed to “kill the Jew and the Christian wherever you may find him.”  

Mohammed proceeded to do just that, telling his men that if they died in the course of slaying the “infidels” they’d immediately be ushered into heaven, which, incidentally, ended up being a great way to increase the quantity of men who’d go raiding with him and hence increase their success rate.  (To start with, Mohammed simply said heaven was inhabited by perpetual virgins.  Upon hearing this, one of his chief bandit helpers immediately killed himself, much to Mohammed’s dismay.  After that Mohammed added the part about dying while killing Christians and Jews (holy war) as the only surefire way to get into heaven.)

Islam has a firm tradition that the later writings usurp the earlier writings.  This being the case, a “moderate” Muslim is an apostate Muslim because if he were devout he’d be killing Jews and Christians.  The only exception to this would be the devout Muslim who’s biding his time as an immigrant in a “Christian” nation, living peacefully, making peaceful noises (telling lies, like about how peaceful he is) until enough of his brothers are living in the same community.  Once the numbers are great enough, he can press for Sharia law, arguing it should be permitted to him, in his community, based on (Christian) ideals of religious freedom etc.  

Once his neighbors concede that point, he presses for more and he begins to strive to fully live the devout Muslim lifestyle (i.e. mutilate and abuse his women and kill or steal from Jews and Christians and generally mistreat and kill his brothers arguing over which line of successors of Mohammed should be followed while simultaneously trying to drive his nation of residence back to the stone age).  

Presently, Muslim neighborhoods erupt into violence all over the world where sufficient numbers of them co-exist.  Secular, Jewish and Christian women walk in fear anywhere near Muslim neighborhoods (men will be next) and this will continue until enough more Muslims immigrate.  When they have the numbers sufficient to really hurt somebody besides themselves and their women, things will get really nasty.  

Muslims nations in which the various sects aren’t trying to mutilate and abuse their women or kill each other are apostate Muslim nations.  There is a class of essentially apostate Muslims who con themselves into believing they're not really apostate.  This class of Muslim makes all the right noises in the presence of other Muslims while managing to have something else to do when it's time to draw blood.  (Mohammed had some really harsh words for that type.) (I remind you, this part about Muslim behavior is totally NOT politically correct and therefore you must realize repeating it will make someone really mad.)  

So, I fail to understand how a text written by a bandit, holy-man-wanna-be merits examination as truth.  I fail to recognize murderous Allah as a god who cherishes anyone.  And I don’t understand how, Allah, as insane as he appears in the Koran, could have possibly created anything, even a mosquito, which is also a really blood-thirsty creature.

Allah demands his followers die killing Christians and Jews in order to get into heaven, Elohim demands His only Son die to save everybody who will believe and thus get them into Heaven...hmn, let me think, which religion is run by a god who “cherishes?”  Give me a minute, I’ll figure it out...

The Koran says that Jesus was not crucified:  
“And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure,” The Women, 4.157.  

But historical texts clearly say Jesus WAS crucified.  Josephus, as quoted on this site, http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jdtabor/josephus-jesus.html :  

“At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus, and his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon their loyalty to him. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive. Accordingly they believed that he was the Messiah, concerning whom the Prophets have recounted wonders.”

The Apostles, save John, all died preaching Jesus raised from the dead.  Persons who KNOW they preach a lie will not die for it!  

The Gospel accounts have been corroborated by ancient historians (Josephus, to name one) and are consistent with ancient Hebrew texts, fulfilling ancient Hebrew prophecies while the Koran does not hold up to equal scrutiny on any level with anything, not even itself.  But that’s ok, devout Muslims aren’t supposed to read it unless they can read it in the original language, which most of them don’t know.  And they’re not allowed to question the Koran or argue about what it says either.  

Yours,

Marilyn