Expert: Marilyn - 12/11/2004

Question
-------------------------
Followup To
Question -
  In the bible God sent the Jews into the land of Canaan.  Here he asked his people to destoy all those that lived there.  To take the land for their own.  This they did with the exception of one tribe.

  I see this as hate.  Is there something that
is in the bible that says we are to forgive those who have wronged us, even those they have not come forth and stated their wrongdoing.  I do not mean that we think they did something to
harm us, but actually did bring us harm and suffering.

         Thank you,
         Fred
Answer -
Hi Fred;

The people who lived in the land of Canaan worshiped other gods, particularly Baal who demanded child sacrifices (you will see mention of someone causing their child to walk through the fire--that's the kind of child sacrifice these people were engaged in.  Sometimes they laid infants in the metal hands of the idol and then built a fire under it) and sexual worship expecting young women just coming of age to go to groves of trees and lie there where any man could come and use them.  If you know the Lord, you know He would find these acts detestable.  

Sometimes God uses nations to invade and cleanse lands where the people will not stop their evil practices.  We have nations right now who will send their teenagers to blow themselves and others up, which is just another form of child sacrifice.  God values human life and He values our bodies, perhaps even more than we do.  He detests any kind of abuse of human beings and He will find a way to stop it.

Individuals such as when their homes are being invaded or someone is being assaulted etc. have the right of self-defense, but they do not have to right to seek justice in the same manner--that is we don't have the right to become vigilantes.  That kind of authority, to deal with evil nations and criminals on the loose, is given to governments or nations.  And God gave that kind of authority to the Israelites as a nation, to cleanse the land of these people who engaged in

If you want specific scriptures on this please let me know.  I know I normally give those and I hope you'll forgive me for not including them right now.

Merry Christmas!!

Marilyn


  *The Specific Scriptures would be nice.  Sorry that my question
upset you, Marilyn.  You have a nice day!

Answer
Your question didn't upset me at all Fred.  You see I've had more questions this week than I've had in a year and I got myself into making sixty gingerbread houses plus all the usual house cleaning, decorating, etc. that goes with the holidays!  If you didn't really need the scriptures, I was going to try to get out of finding them for you.  I don't mind getting them; I was just trying to cut a corner.  I can't imagine ever being upset with you, Fred.

Exodus 20:13 and Deuteronomy 12:2 both say, "You shall not murder."  The verb there was mistranslated "kill" in the King James version, which has created a whole lot of confusion every since.  The Hebrew word used in those verses specifically refers to intentional killing with evil purpose, not to justified killing or accidental killing.  

Actions are important, but actions start with the heart and the mind.  Jesus always put a high value on the state of the individual heart.  Matthew 5:21 & 22, "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.'  But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother (some translations add "without cause") will be subject to judgment.  Again, anyone who says to his brother, "raca," is answerable to the Sanhedrin.  But anyone who says "you fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell."

Jesus' focus on intentions and motives persistently sets a higher standard than the old law which focused only on actions.  In the above passage Jesus is speaking of murderous anger being equivalent to murder even if the person doesn't act on it.

Murder by definition involves evil intent.  Murder usually begins with one or more of the following sinful emotions:  hatred, rage, jealousy, greed, covetousness etc.  Killing and murder are not the same thing at all.  Killing an intruder who's threatening your wife is not the same as the murder he was contemplating.  Intentions and motives are of prime importance to the Lord.

Governments have the right to make war, to reign in criminals and if necessary execute them for their crimes.  Government officials will answer to God for their decisions, therefore we should pray for those in government, I Timothy 2:1-4.  

Through answered prayer wicked governments are overthrown either by other governments or some other means such as economic collapse, natural catastrophes, etc.  In the United States, or any other nation where citizens have that right, voting for the most godly candidate available should be the priority of very eligible individual because the godly person is more apt to respond to God's leading than the ungodly person.  Concerns of economic policy and so on are secondary to the question, "Is this candidate godly?"

Romans 13:1-7, quoted here are verses 1-4, "...there is no authority except that which God has established.  The authorities that exist have been established by God.  Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment upon themselves.  For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.  Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority?  Then do what is right and he will commend you.  For he is God's servant to do you good.  But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing.  He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrong doer..."

Hebrews 13:17, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority.  They keep watch over you as men who must give an account..."

I Peter 2:13 & 14, "Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men:  Whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to the governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right..."

Check out the following Scriptures:  Deuteronomy 19:4-13; 20:10-18; 27:24 & 25; II Kings 3:26 & 27; 26:1-3; II Chronicles 28:3; Isaiah 57:5; Jeremiah 19:5; Ezekiel 16:20; 23:37

By the way, Baal had a female counterpart goddess known as Asherah, she's the one for whom "sacred" prostitution was engaged in.  See this web site for more information on Baal:
http://www.pantheon.org/articles/b/baal.html

Hope you're doing great,
(You might also check out my novel that came out earlier this year:
http://overtheedge.www7.50megs.com      )

Thanks,
Marilyn

Hello Fred;

A follow-up on your question.

The verses I sent you about the rights of government have long been read as the “Divine Right of Kings."  And some in our modern, Protestant America question whether our Founding Fathers weren't in rebellion not only against the king of England, but against God because they rebelled against their government.

Several things happened that ended the historical mis-use of power by authorities, beginning with the Catholic Church which had become the only Christian church in existence by the end of the first century, AD.  This was due to Constantine's adoption of Catholicism as the one Christian sect that had a single head, thus one he could control.  He became a Catholic and insisted everyone else also become Catholic or die.  This led to huge persecution of Jewish believers and virtually ended the existence of Jewish Christians until the modern era.

Having one religion and making it a state religion gave Constantine quite a lot of power.  Other European kings through history have certainly played the state religion card to maintain control of the population and the church played right along with the "Divine Right of Kings" doctrine.

However, Martin Luther, driven by the Holy Spirit, began the end of these abuses of power with his "95 Theses" which he nailed to the church doors challenging the church's abuse of its power.  The invention of the printing press also broke the Catholic church's strangle hold on theological knowledge with the first mass printings of the Bible and represented the beginning of the end of the abuse of power given to the church and to government.

Some European nations became Protestants.  Calvin and the Calvinists, which are often thought of as Church of Christ in the US, began in northern Europe, particularly the Netherlands, Luther in Germany founded the Lutherans and others whose names I can't recall at the moment, started other various Protestant denominations.  

And Henry VIII in England finally kicked out the Catholic Church as the dominant religious force so that he could marry as often as he liked and instituted the Church of England as the state religion.  And like England, some European nations switched national religions from Catholicism to their own version of Protestantism and religious freedom, though improved, was still restricted.  Today in Europe one must still belong to the state approved religion in order to avoid religious persecution.

Our Founding Fathers of the US came here seeking religious freedom and viewed the state authorities at home as being illegitimate due to their abuses of power, that is the king was rebelling against God by not behaving justly to his subjects, therefore he should be cast down.  The Protestant belief, deeply instilled even today, was in the individual connected intimately with God and not necessarily needing to answer to any other authority.  Thus, we have elected officials who serve at our behest and must behave else we will remove them from office.  The believe that government positions are positions of service, rather than positions of power to be used to one's own ends, hasn't entirely died from our culture.  And the old Puritan belief that government officials should be the most righteous and holy of the people, so that the government they run will be more perfectly attuned to God's Will, hasn't entirely died either, though it has suffered many heavy hits in recent times.

At present, though G W Bush is not perfect by any means, our nation has another chance to clean up our act.  Believers must step up to the plate and take charge of government to make it more attuned to God's Will as the Founding Fathers originally intended—a nation run by Christians according to Christian principles while at the same time being tolerant of other beliefs.  

The notion that politics is dirty business not suited for Christians should be cast aside as the lie from hell it actually is and we should invade these territories we've allowed to be taken by the enemy.  Historically, as discussed above, God has dealt with abuses of power first in His Church and then in national governments by taking both down a few notches.  It would do us well to take note of this and persist to remedy our own political and governmental scene before He is forced to take action here. Thankfully, we presently have that opportunity.

Others who've asked the question you asked have posted this follow-up question:  “What about the Founding Fathers?  They rebelled against their governing authority.  Didn't they sin in so doing?”  I felt I slighted you not giving you the scriptures right away on the earlier question and thought I'd give you this bonus information to hopefully compensate you and let you know I do care about you and your questions.

A book you need to add to your reference library is:
"American's God and Country" by William J. Federer, ISBN 1-880563-09-6.  This book is a treasure trove of what our national leaders have thought about government, religion, God and the issues we face today.  It is from this book that I've gotten many of the thoughts I've shared above.

Merry Christmas!

Marilyn

P.S.
I thought of this clarification:  The fundamental attitude of the colonists was that the king, by declaring himself head of the church, taking and abusing that authority, had not rendered to God that which was God's, by doing these things, he dethroned himself.