Expert: Eric Christy - 5/31/2007

Question
QUESTION: You say that hell is an invention of man.  If so, how do you explain Jesus' many mentions of hell.

For example in Luke 16, 23In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side.h ... 26Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us.' 27

ANSWER: Hello Ann,

You are quite right. I have, since, changed my view on biblical hell. I now believe that hell is just as Jesus describes it. That is, the place of eternal suffering and torment for the fallen angels and for unsaved humanity. As Dante' puts it, "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here".

I was wrong about my views of hell as you have read them in my statements. Hell is ETERNAL suffering and anguish, torture beyond belief, and there is no escape from it, no second chance, no mercy, no appeal to God's forgiveness.

What I wrote previously was one man's WISH regarding hell. That was just a wish, wishful thinking, and NOT substantiated by scripture. If we look to scripture as our source for spiritual truths, then not only is there an eternal hell, but it is eternal suffering and torments unimaginable! And just as there is an eternal hell, there is an eternal heaven (Matthew 25:46). Both are eternal. Hell is eternal suffering. Heaven is eternal joy.

Do I like it? To be honest with you, no. However, what I like is not important. What IS important is what is TRUE. It's the TRUTH that counts, all else is just tradition. So, I now teach that hell is eternal suffering, while heaven is eternal joy. All the more reason for people to make sure they choose salvation through faith in what Jesus Christ accomplished on their behalf, than damnation. Being human is a serious undertaking. You have to make this choice, which determines your eternal destiny. Not making a choice defaults to hell.

Eric

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I commend you on being open minded and seeking Truth in your spiritual journey.  Not many people are strong enough to say they were wrong.  The Truth will set you free.  Personally, I believe in Hell and Heaven but I like to consider King David's words about dwelling in the house of the Lord all the days of his life.  Jesus wants us to follow the Truth so that we can enjoy and know (and share)Him now as well as in eternity.

Thank you for your candor and God bless you.

Remember Jesus' words to Pilate...John 18:37 "You are right in saying I am a king.  In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth.  Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."

I believe it was King David in Psalms 27:4 that said "One think I ask of the Lord, this is what I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life..."
ANSWER: Hi Ann,

Nice to hear from you again. Thank you for your kind words. We agree that the Truth is the important thing. What we like is, well, irrelavant. It's the Truth that saves. And the Truth is that there is both an eternal hell to be saved from, and an eternal heaven to be saved for. And, as you said, the Truth will set you free.

What it boils down to (at least for me) is this: What is my source of spiritual truth? If I say that my own sense of morality -good and evil, justice and judgement- is that source, then I would say that God would not have created the biblical hell described by Jesus and others in the bible. But if the bible is my source of spiritual truth, then what Jesus and others say about hell must be accepted as the Truth. And, so I have made my choice. I do not believe what 'seems' right and true to me. But rather, I believe what the bible says is right and true.

I could not have made this choice, Ann, unless I had supernatural experiences to support this choice to believe what the bible says about heaven and hell. But because I have supernatural experiences which validate the doctrine of eternal hell, I have to admit that I have no honest excuse not to believe in eternal hell. If all I had were the bible *ONLY* then the doctrine of an eternal hell the bible teaches would be suspect due to its lack of requisite justification. But because I have supernatural experiences to support the doctrine of an eternal hell, I am forced to admit to its Truth. What I like has nothing to do with what is True.

Someday, I'm sure that God Himself will make clear to all the saved why He chose eternal hell for the lost souls. While I am in my human form, however, I have learned to accept it as the Truth.

Thanks so much for your coorespondence. If I may ask, how have you come to our Savior, Jesus Christ?

Eric

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: My parents raised me a Christian at a non-denominational church.  I have to say I was truly blessed to have a head start by hearing the Word for as long as I can remember.

However, as everyone has their own spiritual journeys, there are different stages of my life that the Lord touch my spirit and woke me up demanding I get serious about my faith.  The first wake up call was when I was at a local bar speaking to the bartender that said in one of our conversations, "You're a Christian?"  It was the most horrible thing anyone could ever say about me.  Although inside I believed, I was not living a life following the Word.  Most importantly I was missing opportunities to share the Word. I wanted to live a life that produces fruit so I needed to become a submissive believer.  

There are other trials I've had along the way that have strengthened my faith.  Everytime I forgot God in my life, some trial occurred to make me remember.  I even had a debilitating illness that made me rest solely in the Lord.  As much as I hated the disease I loved it since it drew me closer to the Lord.  Praise be to God, I had major surgery and it is over.

One year, I chose to read the bible for the year.  It was great.  I learned how everything in the bible ties together and learned God's Truths (which I continue to learn everyday).  Like the tree next to the stream, I've learned that life is most fulfilling even through bad times while immersed in the Word.  The hardest time for me now are the good times because then life gets busy and I forget to make time for the Lord.  Trials are easy since then I always cling to the Lord.  God is like the refining fire that purifies silver.  We are constantly be perfected by God for His purpose.

May God be with you always!
ANSWER: Hi Ann,

Yes, you were blessed to have Christian parents who raised you as a Christian and hearing the Word growing up. And, as you say, we all have our own spiritual journeys, sometimes deviating quite off the narrow path into the broad path that leads to destruction.

That "wake up call" you spoke about must have really woken you up! Sometimes God uses others to awaken us to our spiritual condition we often don't want to think about.

I can relate to how the trials in your life brought you back to a dependence upon God. Your illness helped you concentrate on your relationship with God. Even bad things God can use to make good results.

You choosing to read the bible for a year is probably a major spiritual turning point in your life. Being able to see how things "tie together" in the bible is not easy, so it is a blessing for you to have that understanding.

What are your views regarding the coming end times? Do you think Christians will be raptured outta here, or do you think God will require us to go through the tribulation period? I have studied this issue for over 10 years and am fascinated by bible prophecy. I consider the end times very close. What are your thoughts?

Eric

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Good questions.  I don't really have solid answers.  Revelations has confused me.  So I've mostly focused my studies on how Jesus says to live life today and reading the stories in the bible that demonstrate how to live for God by people in bible times that loved.  

I know Jesus said that he will return.  I know he said the end times are near.  I believe him but I don't know how it's all going to happen.  Much of the new advancements in technologies I find disturbing (i.e. retnal scanning, chips in bodies, etc.)  I can see the times when there is one world currency is near.  

I know there are differing opinions on the rapture and the tribulation period so I tried to make sense of them by recently re-reading Revelations.  I did take note of Paul's letters to the 7 churches.  I found it interesting how similar people's behaviors were then as they are today.   But I still haven't been able to draw my own conclusion about how the end times will unfold.  Perhaps because they'd be just that - my conclusions.  I wish I could just ask God to explain it to me in simple terms.  I do know I want to be ready for Christ's return.  I agree, it is facinating and interesting, I just can't get my hands around it.   

What are your views regarding the comping end times?
ANSWER: Hi Ann,

Don't be surprized that you have difficulty with the book of Revelation. Most people do, and to demonstrate that, there are at least 4 major schools of thought on how to interpret it, and sub-schools amongst those.

Prominent theologians/preachers have even debated whether the book of Revelation should be part of the canon of scripture. Not the least of which was Martin Luther of Reformation times.

My view of it is that it does belong in the canon of scripture, but I allow for various interpretations because some very intelligent people differ on how to interpret it. My view is that the events described starting from chapter 4 to the end, are future events. Events that have not yet happened. I try to compare similar statements in other scripture stating the same sort of events with what is stated in Revelation to make some sense of it. For example, I compare the book of Daniel with similar statements in Revelation (though there is debate about this, too) and of course the book of Ezekiel chapters 37-39, various chapters in Isaiah, all of the book of Zechariah, and the 3 gospel accounts of end times (Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21). I suggest that a good study would include the 3 gospel accounts, then reading Revelation chapters 6-14 in one sitting. It would take a couple of hours, but it would give you a good framework to see similarities in the end time events these chapters discuss.

Like you, I am concerned about the security measures being discussed and planned. Such as eye-scans, RF-ID chips implaced under the skin, etc. There is some discussion about if having a chip implanted into your body is the "Mark of the Beast" discussed in Revelation chapter 13. If so, then allowing yourself to be 'marked' or chipped, would be taking the "Mark of the Beast" which would negate your salvation! Revelation is very clear about this matter. It states clearly that if you take the "Mark of the Beast" or the "Number of his name", you lose your salvation! That makes understanding just what the meanings of the end time prophesies VERY IMPORTANT indeed!

I believe that we are near the end times, if not already beginning to enter them. For the first time in history, humanity has the means to actually fulfill the "Mark of the Beast" in making all humans to be required to be 'marked' this way. We have the technology to do it. Never before have we had it. Never before could this prophecy be possible. Now, it can be. Another requirement for the end times to occur is the necessity of a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. Scripture states that the Beast will enter the Temple and declare himself to be God (2nd Thessolonians chapter 2). As long as there is no Temple, he cannot fulfill this prophesy that the apostle Paul makes. But since 1948, there has been a Jewish state, and there are ongoing attempts to rebuild the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. If we see it rebuilt, then the Beast, the Antichrist, can enter it claiming to be God and wreaking havoc on the Christians.

Lots to think about, eh Ann. I wish (there I go wishing again) that Martin Luther is correct and that Revelation does not belong in the bible. Time will tell...

Eric


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Regarding your comments on the "Mark of the Beast".  I've always believed that our salvation cannot be lost.  How do you think this relates the the possibility of Christians that cannot buy or purchase anything in the future without the mark?

Do you know why Martin Luther believed that Revelation does not belong in the bible.  Agreeing with your comparisons to Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah and the 3 gospel accounts it does appear that the writings appear consistent.  So I'm interested as to why Martin Luther who studied all of this a great deal more than me would think it doesn't belong?  

Answer
Hi Ann,

The teaching from Revelation 14:9-12 (and other New Testament passages such as Hebrews 6:4-6, and other scriptures) does indicate that a Christian *can* lose their salvation. Revelation 14:9-12 teaches that anyone, including Christians, that takes the "mark" will suffer eternal torments in the damnation of eternal hell! Revelation 3:5 teaches us that only "he who overcomes" will not be blotted out of the Book of Life. This implies that people who *were* written into the Book of Life can be blotted out. Erased. Damned. Just because a name is entered into the Book of Life does not guarantee that name will stay there. The *only* guarantee is if we overcome. Overcoming is the KEY doctrine of Revelation chapters 1 through 3. You should read and re-read these 3 chapters, Ann.

Reading the bible is a serious undertaking. For it gives us the good news, as well as the bad news. Reading the bible clearly demonstrates what is at stake for the human being. It clearly teaches that a celestial war is waging for the souls of human beings. It boils down to this: God casts a vote for you, the Devil casts a vote against you...and You are the tie-breaker. God has done all a God can do to save you in sending His son, Jesus Christ, as our savior. The Devil has done all a Devil can do making sure you are damned. What determines our final, eternal state, is the choices we make while we are alive on earth. If we make the wise choice and accept Jesus Christ as our savior, we are saved. But that salvation can be lost if we use our choice to accept the "mark of the beast". The concept of overcoming, to OVERCOME, is not well understood in our churches today. It was well understood at the time of the apostles, and the writing of Revelation. And, it is understood wherever persecution of Christians is still occuring today. But here in Western Christianity, it is not well understood. However, it will be.

What validates whether you are a Christian? Is it the acceptance of Jesus Christ as your savior...only? What if God, wanting to purify those wanting to be made more like His image and likeness, was willing to bring upon them suffering to weed out those who were not truly sincere? The unfortunate aspect of being a Christian can be that God will allow suffering, even GREAT suffering to come upon His children to weed out those who are not truly sincere. If we are here, Ann, when the Antichrist comes into the world, you and I will experience what I'm speaking of. God will use the Antichrist to weed out the false Christians from the true. The apostle Paul speaks of this in 2nd Thessolonians 9-12, where the great apostacy occurs at the arrival of the Antichrist. This "apostacy" is the falling away of so-called Christians, leaving only what is true, behind. God allows this suffering to reveal who are those that truly love Him.

Do I like it? No. But we have already determined that what I like, or what you like, has no bearing on what is going to happen. I do, however, understand it. I understand that God has to use some mechanism to weed out the true from the false, the wheat from the chaff. Suffering and persecution is the way He has historically done so, and will do so in the future.

Now, as for Martin Luther. I want you to research the reasons for why he considered Revelation to not be worthy of inclusion in the canon of scripture. I will leave that worthy task in your hands.

The writings of Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah and the 3 gospel accounts are consistent in some ways, inconsistent in others. The key to understanding bible prophecy is to know when the prophet is speaking about events close to his time, or events way off into the future. And here is the problem. Sometimes the prophet will be speaking about what God will do very soon, especially regarding what God will do to punish Israel for her disobeying Him and worshipping false gods. But during that narrative, a skip in time could occur, and now the prophet is speaking about end-time events. For instance, in Daniel chapter 11:1-35, this speaks of near future events from Daniel's time, the events later fulfilled in the conquests of the Greek conquerer Alexander the Great and his four generals. But then starting at verse 36 to the end of chapter 11, many scholars see a shift in time to the very end...end-times in the coming of the Antichrist. This is the sort of time-shift often encountered in prophecies in the bible. Another example would be the prophecies regarding the first coming of the Messiah are sometimes mixed with prophecies regarding His second coming and it can get confusing. Only a careful, prayerful reading can lend understanding. But if one does gain understanding, it will greatly benefit one's spiritual committment.

Well, what are your thoughts? I know you've believed that once saved-always saved. However, the bible does not teach that. What it does teach is that if you CHOOSE to be faithful to God and Jesus, you will remain saved. Our whole life experience on earth is all about choice. Our CHOICES determine our eternal destiny, as God has already made His.

Eric