Expert: Eric Christy - 12/30/2007

Question
QUESTION: G'day Eric!

Just concerning a reply to a question you gave on 3/17/2006...

"Hi Sherry,

If we look at Matthew 25:46, we see an important statement by Jesus on this matter of eternal heaven and eternal hell. Here Jesus states "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life"--(NIV). The word "eternal" applies to both those in heaven as well as those in hell. So, if "eternal" means only 'age-lasting' then there would be an end to hell for those there, but there would also be an end to heaven for those there. Not a good thing for those in heaven, eh.

If heaven is eternal, then so is hell. There's no getting around this biblical concept. Those who choose to reject salvation through faith in what Jesus accomplished for them, suffer horrific agony for an eternity in hell for their foolish rebellion, while those in heaven, because they had the wisdom to accept Jesus as their savior, live in joyous harmony with God and Christ Jesus. Our eternal destiny is our choice. Specifically, our choice. It's like this: God casts a vote for you, the Devil casts a vote against you, and YOU are the tie-breaker.

Hell is as long lasting and just as real, as heaven is. And both require a choice that WE make, as God and the Devil have already made their choices.

Now, do I like the reality of an eternal hell? Hell no! But, that is what the Bible teaches, and while it teaches it, I do not like it. But what I like has no bearing whether hell is eternal. What I like does not matter in this regard. What does matter is what God has said about it. And what He has said about it is that heaven and hell are eternal."

...

I'm not sure if you really answered the question for me personally, and after some rigorous study I'm rather unconvinced in the existence of a place of eternal torment and suffering. It's not that I  belive there's a way 'around this biblical concept', I just don't this it is a biblical concept, as the bible only mentions once or twice, something that could allude to that effect if one is partial to that particular context. Whereas I read plainly all the through the bible that "the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23) Or that "God has
given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1 John 5:11-12) I mean, doesn't this clearly state that the penalty of sin is death, "but those who believe in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) ? As for "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life" (Matthew 25:46), I believe this is easily misinterpreted, the consequences of death are eternal, not the process. For instance: "Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)
In fact, the times I've come across references to an 'eternal suffering and torment of the wicked' as I've read through the Bible, I could count on one hand. Isn't this a little lackluster compared to the amount of times the Bible refers to death as being the ultimate price for sin?

Also, if there is the existence of a physical and everlasting fiery hell, wouldn't that mean people would want to get to heaven purely on the basis that they wouldn't want to go to hell? Isn't such a notion contrary to the Bible and more in line with some of kind of empty and self-centred, survival politic? I mean, should I start purchasing Indulgences from the Pope?

- Paul

ANSWER: Hi Paul,

Nice to hear from you. You are raising the most important question to be asked with regard to heaven and hell. That is, is hell eternal? This assumes we believe in hell, which I think we both do. At least I do, though I believe it not because it is rational to do so, but because it is scriptural to do so. If it were up to me, I would have created 2nd chance mechanisms or reincarnation, that sort of thing, to deal with the lost souls and getting them up to speed on spiritual maturity. But, it ain't up to me, it's up to God. And from what I read in scripture, eternal horiffic hell is the destiny for those who reject Jesus Christ as their savior.

Some of the scripture you cited in your email to me state that hell is eternal, and the destination for the lost souls. Read John 3:16-20. Most people quote only John 3:16, and this most famous of all bible verses states that "whosoever believes" will not perish. That means that to escape from perishing (assuming this means eternal hell) you must believe. Believe what? Believe that Jesus came to provide you your salvation and do not reject His saving work on your behalf. But read through John 3:16-20 and you will get a more complete picture of the IMPORTANCE of believing, i.e choice. Choice determines destiny.

Finally, read 2nd Thessolonians 2:9-12. Here we see a rationale given for why people go to hell and why people are saved. Here is the apostle Paul's finest rationale given for both salvation and damnation. Look at the role "the love of the truth" plays in this concept. It's the love of the truth, that separates the saved from the damned. Think about how this concept applies in your own life.

Eric




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." 2 (Thessolonians 2:9-12)

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.[b] 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed." (John 3:16-20)

G'day Eric, I agree with you whole-heartedly as far as the importance of believing in and accepting the salvation in Jesus Christ, and that's one of the reasons why I believe the idea that hell is eternal fiery torment to be so absurd. What I mean is, rejecting the prospect of heaven and the truth of God's salvation is a punishment unto itself. Sure, I do believe in hell and have done so all my life, but have come to see hell as a means to an end of the unrighteous, the eternal consequences of sin and Godlessness in the second death.

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28

"Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Those who are victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death." Rev 2:11

"Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." Rev 20:14

This is what I read from scripture, that the righteous are rewarded with eternal life and the unrighteous with eternal destruction, i.e. eternal death not eternal suffering and pain. The idea that 'lost souls' go to a place of torment and torture forever and forever seems to be, if I base my argument on scripture, somewhat fanciful and humanistic thinking that sounds like something that came straight from Pagan Rome and the Dark Ages. The God I read about in the bible is the God who would destroy evil rather than preserve it's existence for the sake of torture.

For example:
"Good judgment wins favor, but the way of the unfaithful leads to their destruction." Psalms 13:15

"For I dreaded destruction from God, and for fear of his splendor I could not do such things." Job 31:23

"Death and Destruction lie open before the LORD— how much more do human hearts!" Proverbs 15:11

"Woe to them, because they have strayed from me! Destruction to them, because they have rebelled against me! I long to redeem them but they speak about me falsely." Hosea 7:13

"While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." John 17:12

"Those who sow to please their sinful nature, from that nature [ Or their flesh, from the flesh] will reap destruction; those who sow to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life." Galations 6:8

"Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things." Philippians 3:19

"They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" 2 Thessalonians 1:9

"By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly." 2 Peter 3:7

"But the wicked will perish: Though the LORD's enemies are like the flowers of the field, they will be consumed, they will go up in smoke. " Psalm 37:20

"For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed; the offspring of the wicked will perish." Psalm 37:28

"May you blow them away like smoke— as wax melts before the fire, may the wicked perish before God." Psalm 68:2

"But rebels and sinners will both be broken, and those who forsake the LORD will perish." Isaiah 1:28

"They are worthless, the objects of mockery; when their judgment comes, they will perish." Jeremiah 10:15

"I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish." Luke 13:3

"All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law." Romans 2:12

"and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." 2 Thessalonians 2:10

"But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish." 2 Peter 2:12

"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9

Answer
Hi Paul,

I see that you quote passages that I suggested for your study on this all-important matter of hell and its nature. Since I can only cite, as my spiritual authority the bible, then I am stuck with the belief that hell is eternal horror. Not that I would want it to be, but that's the only honest conclusion I can take, when using the bible as one's source of spiritual authority.

Now, if we wanted to cite Catholic views, then there would be appeal to purgatory, though purgatory is nowhere taught in the bible. But Catholics believe in extra-biblical sources for spiritual authority, so for them, a purgatory is spiritually accurate. But if one uses just the bible (old and new testaments) one does not find purgatory taught. One only finds eternal hell, and that primarily from the teaching of both Jesus and the apostle Paul. The old testament is remarkably silent about matters of the afterlife, and I do find that strange. I would have liked (since Jesus warned of the horrors of eternal hell) that He would have had some teaching on it in the old testament as well.

You cite a lot of scriptures (regarding hell) that contain the word "perish". What do you suppose that means, Paul? Does it mean to cease from existence? Or, does it mean to perish (cease) from God's favor and protection, and consequently to be cast into eternal hell where there is "weeping and knashing of teeth"?

If one accepts the bible as one's source of final authority on spiritual matters, one is forced to admit that hell is eternal suffering, horrific in the worst imaginable way, and with no hope of remediation. As Dante put it "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here".

While I do not like this kind of a hell, it is what I honestly believe the bible teaches. Of course, I would have preferred that God had second, third, even fourth chance mechanisms for all the lost souls (as well as lost angels...even including Satan himself) but He has not chosen this. When reading the bible, one gets the impression that we HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME OR ELSE!

That implies the importance of taking one's spiritual growth as a foremost goal in life. Nothing is more important than settling one's eternal destiny. Nothing. Can you imagine how horrific it would be to gain the whole world, but lose your own soul?! What advantage in hell do you have, suffering for eternity because you foresook the one means of winning heaven? That is, by accepting Jesus Christ as your savior and growing in spiritual maturity throughout your life.

People, trying to be 'sophisticated', pooh-pooh the biblical teaching on hell, thinking it beneath their enlightened understanding. But hell is real. Too real, I'm afraid. I have good reasons to say so, and they're not just from reading a book called the bible. Personal experiences have validated both the reality of hell, and the reality of heaven. So, though I wish God had not been so stern about this matter of salvation...or else...I do know that it is something to be concerned about. Once one accepts Jesus Christ as their savior, and continue with Him, they have the confidence that they will be welcomed into heaven when they die. But if one does not accept Jesus Christ as their savior, they have only fear and anguish and torment of soul to look forward to when they die.

That's how I interpret the bible's teaching on hell, and it is supported by supernatural experiences. I wish it were otherwise, but wishing it won't make it true. Therefore, I have decided that loving the truth, not what I wish to be true, is of paramount importance. And, so says the apostle Paul (2nd Thessolonians 2:9-12).

What are your thoughts?

Eric