Expert: Marilyn - 7/7/2007

Question
QUESTION: I watch and listen to Christian evangelican teachers quit a bit. Some teachers like Harold Camping from Family Radio
r2eypand pastor Hagee from Hagee Ministries contradict each other and confuse the viewer or listener. Harold said one can not lose his or her salvation
once it is received no matter what. Hagee says it can be revoked and deleted from the book of life...Im really confused. What does the bible say about this ?

Thanks

Vic

ANSWER: I've added some further thougts at the end, below.

Dear Vic;

I have heard bits of John Hagee’s sermons.  One time I was so infuriated with what he was saying I changed the channel.  I have never heard Harold Camping, but in my research on Google, I noticed various sites debunking some of his teachings.  I perused one site where the author explained that Camping’s “allegorical” method of interpreting the Bible is faulty.

Bible teachers, however great or small, are still human beings; they can falter, fail or stumble.  The best Bible teachers might make some remarks or present some teachings that aren’t exactly correct or may be even flat wrong at some time or another.  As you’ve come to realize, it’s up to you, the listener, to get out your Bible and discover for yourself by guidance of the Holy Spirit what is the truth.  You’re doing one of the primary things a Christian needs to do—thinking.  

Human beings often forget God is God.  This may sound ridiculous, but we human beings tend to forget.  We “humanize” God, we come to understand some aspect of His Personality or His Character and then think we understand His Totality when in reality we only understand the most miniscule facets of Him.  So think for a moment about God, Who is He anyway?

In Genesis we can read the account of how God created everything.  The next thing we Christians are wont to do is get bogged down in arguing about six 24-hour days of creation, six 1000-year “days” of creation or six eras defined by what God accomplishes in each given “day.”  In doing this, we’re not wasting our time, but we’re fools if we don’t comprehend the most significant truth:  God created EVERYTHING.  This concept speaks volumes about God.  A God who can picture everything that exists in our material world in His Mind is no small God.  Not only did He picture the nebulas, the quasars, the suns, He pictured lions, sea turtles, roses, gold, diamonds...all these things He pictured in His Mind.  He planned how all things would work together, how the planets of our solar system would protect and shield the earth.  He planned how bees would pollinate plants that produce food and at the same time make a delightful and amazing substance called “honey.”  He made the stuff from which everything in the material world is made.  We cannot create oxygen.  We cannot make iron.  We can only manipulate these things to fashion new objects.  God made the stuff by the Power of His Word through Faith.  The simple words:  “Let there be light,” so simple a child can understand, keep physicists occupied their entire lives and they still haven’t fully comprehended them.

Yet, here we are, thinking we understand, thinking we comprehend, minimizing God.

I take you back to Genesis 1 and ask you to think of the Creator because it’s from Genesis 1 we may come to understand, God is Sovereign.  God is above and beyond anything we can comprehend.  We may see tiny glimmers of Him here and there when we come to our senses and actually SEE our world.  We may see tiny glimmers of Him in the Scriptures or in the smile of an infant.  

This Sovereign Creator says through His Son, Jesus, “I tell you the truth, whoever hears my Word and believes in Him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life,” John 5:24.  Later, Jesus says, “And this is the Will of Him who sent Me, that I shall lose none of all that He has given Me, but raise them up at the Last Day.  For My Father’s Will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise Him up at the last day,” John 6:39 & 40.

Paul says in Romans 10:9 & 10, “...if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.  For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.”

Paul says in I Thessalonians 5:23 & 24, “May God Himself, the God of Peace, sanctify you through and through.  May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.  The One who calls you is faithful and He will do it.”

What do you think?  Knowing God is God, that He is capable of creating complexities beyond our understanding; systems that work together and remain functional, faithful to do what they were created to do day in day out throughout time, regardless of the stupidities of humanity or the catastrophes of nature, do you think that once you trust Him that He can drop you, that He will lose you?  Do you think that once you trust Him that He will fail to make you His?  

“The One who calls you is faithful and He will do it.”  Your salvation isn’t dependent upon you; it’s dependent upon God.  If it were dependent upon you, certainly you would lose it, but it’s not.  We forget as we muddle about in this material world, sometimes getting our heads bogged down in bills, laundry, fixing the car, mowing the lawn—God is God.  He is Sovereign.  He can do more, above and beyond anything we can comprehend.  We minimize Him, we make Him small and we begin to think that God can’t do anything about this great problem the media has everyone worried about, whatever that problem is (they view it their job to keep everyone worried and focused on problems); we begin to think God cannot keep His Word from corruption; we begin to think that a saved person can somehow be snatched from His Hand because we forget God.  We humanize Him.  God is greater than our problems; He is able to keep His Word and does keep it; He is able to save completely the person who has called Jesus “Lord.”

“Therefore He (Jesus) is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them,” Hebrews 7:25.  I generally use the NIV translation, but I like what the Amplified translation says, “Therefore He is able to save to the uttermost—completely, perfectly, finally and for all time and eternity—those who come to God through Him, since He is always living to make petition to God and intercede with Him and intervene for them.”

Trust God and allow His Word to work in you.  Salvation is also a process by which we are transformed from our fallen, sinful state, slave to death into His Image, victorious, pure and free.  Salvation begins the moment a person says, “Jesus is Lord,” and believes in his heart Jesus was raised from the dead and it continues until the job is complete.  Even set-backs and failures work to our advantage the moment we repent and turn back to God.    

God is a Gentleman.  He is also Wise.  Every person has free will.  I was raised Baptist.  They taught me that Jesus drank grape juice, not wine.  When I went away to college I learned Jesus drank wine.  At that moment I decided that the Bible was bogus, that God was a fraud and I abandoned Him and went my own way.  But years down the road, when everything I had tried was an utter failure and I was living in a pit of hell—not unlike the Prodigal Son.  At that moment, when I realized everything I had tried had only brought me various versions of death, God sent a person to speak to me.  That person gave me a book and I read it.  Everything in the book made sense to me and I turned back to God.  God has used all the failure, all the wanderings and turned it all to gold.  Sure, I had to work through some of the consequences for what I’d done, but the Lord was with me and made it good.

Someone falls, someone seems to have wandered away, God hasn't given up or forgotten that person.  Those who belong to Him remain His, even when they seem to be lost.  He will call the person back to His Side; He will redeem and restore.

Trust God.  Study His Word.  Pray for those who have fallen.  He is able to save completely.  He is GOD.  He can do anything.

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ (the Anointed One)?  Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?...No, in all these things we are more than conquerors, through Him who loved us.  For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord,” Romans 8:35, 37 – 39.  

“I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation, so that you may know Him better.  I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which He has called you, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, and His incomparably great power for us who believe.  That power is like the working of His mighty strength, which He exerted in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His Right Hand in the Heavenly Realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.  And God has placed all things under His Feet and anointed Him to be Head over everything for the church, which is His Body, the fullness of Him Who fills everything in every way,” Ephesians 1:17 – 22.   

“Now to Him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to His power that is at work within us, to Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever!  Amen,” Ephesians 3:20 & 21.

May the Lord open the eyes of your heart that you may see God.

Sincerely,

Marilyn

Further thoughts:

Paul says that once a person confesses aloud, "Jesus is Lord," and believes in his heart Jesus was raised from the dead, he "will be saved," Romans 10:9.  Jesus says that He will not lose any the Father gives Him and He will "raise them up at the last day," John 6:39 & 40.

The Bible speaks of salvation as a work that effects the entire being of each believer.  God is interested in the spirit-life; He's interested in the material-life, that would include car payments, health, what schools a person should attend, even what to wear today, etc. etc.; and He's interested in the life of the soul which would include a person's relationships, his mental health, his growth in wisdom, etc--health and well-being in all of these areas are included in salvation.  Paul says in I Thessalonians 5:23, "may your whole sppirit, soul and body."  

James 1:2-4 says, "Consider it pure joy, my brothers, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance (or patience).  Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete lacking nothing."  The implication being, whatever happens to you in your life, once you say, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart Jesus rose from the dead, you begin a journey and the end result will be that you "lack nothing," that you are "whole."  

Paul says, "Give thanks under all circumstances and in every situation," I Thessaslonians 5:18, that is whether you are healthy or not, whether you are persecuted or not, whether your wife adores you or not, whether you received the promised raise or not--give thanks.  Why?  Because "everything works together for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His Purpose," Romans 8:28.  All humanity was dreamed of in the Father's mind, each person created for a specific purpose to fit into the body of Christ and become His bride.  You and I, every believer is included in Romans 8:28--everything works together for your good, even the things that seem in the moment to be working for your ill.  As James says, the objective is to bring you to wholeness, lacking nothing--that's what salvation is:  wholenes, lacking nothing.  God's objective is to restore everything Adam lost when he sinned and to bring saved humanity up to their full potential, sometimes the objective may require what seems to us painful, stressful and distressing means.  

The last salvation act God will do for the believer is to raise that person from the dead--that is to give him his resurrection body, the kind of body Jesus had after He was raised from the dead.  In the Gospel accounts we see that after His resurrection Jesus had a material body, He ate fish and bread with the Apostles by the shore, He even cooked the meal; He appeared in locked rooms without use of the door, apparently indicating time and space had no more hold on Him.  That kind of body is the kind of body each believer will recieve and it is the final gift of salvation.

A person must make the declaration, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in his heart Jesus was raised from the dead.  If a person dies a moment after breathing that confession, then he is saved.  If he lives many years after making that confession, he is still saved.  Once a person makes that confession, God begins His salvation work.  Someone might wander off, as I did, but God will work things around to a point where the person will come to his senses--that's God's job, part of the salvation promise.  He is faithful, He WILL do whatever is needed to complete salvation for the person who has made his confession.

Thanks for the generous rating.

Sincerely,

Marilyn




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you your additional response. I have another question along the same lines. I receive the magazine Endtime. In it it discusses the Mark of the Beast system and this last issue was discussing that the RealId Act may actually be the system outlined in Revelation. My question is this. Can the Mark of the Beast system be implemented by the government through deceptive means ? Some people think the SSNs are it. Already some Alzheimers patients are chipped with IDs under their skin so they can be tracked.

There are already strong undercurrents that the US is rapidly moving towards an Orwellian type society. Can one be tricked into accepting the Mark of the Beast since no one knows what that will be ? Or will God give you the discernment, when the time comes, to make that recognition and avoid it ?  

Thank you.

Answer
Hello Vic;

Though the technology the Beast will use may already be available, he has not yet been “revealed,” that is come to power, therefore the technology is not currently being used to apply the mark of the beast.

II Thessalonians 2:3, 4 & 7, 8, “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.  He opposes and exalts himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, and even sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.  For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.  And then the lawless one will be revealed, the one the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming.”

The forces of lawlessness are obviously at work, but the Anti-Christ will not be revealed until “the one who now holds it back” is “taken out of the way.”  What force do you suppose is holding back the flood of evil that seems to threaten in myriad ways?  Who is “He” who holds it back?

Jesus said in John 14:12, “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in Me will do what I have been doing.  He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”  Essentially what did Jesus do when He was here on earth as a Man?  He held back lawlessness:  He healed people, He did miracles, He loved people, He changed the world for the better and He died to pay for sin and rose again from the dead.  All these acts held back lawlessness, but it’s us, Christians, who have done even more.  Because Jesus returned to the Father, the Holy Spirit was released to believers and Christians have been pushing back lawlessness ever since.  The examples are countless they include the Crusaders who pushed back Islamic terrorists; Galileo, a devout Christian, who initiated the age of science and all the other early Christian scientists who discovered and invented the things that are the foundation of our technology, understanding of the universe and medicine; Wilberforce and others who fought against slavery; the Founding Fathers of the United States who believed God well enough to found a nation upon the Freedom Jesus purchased by His Blood....the list goes on and on, even today as people push back against evil in large and small ways day in and day out.

So, who must be taken out before the lawless one can be revealed?  The answer is the church which includes all believers regardless of denomination who name Jesus as Lord and believe He was raised from the dead.  Until we are taken out, the lawless one cannot be revealed, therefore any system that he might use to make his mark, copying the Holy Spirit’s mark, see II Corinthians 1:22 and Ephesians 4:30, is not currently employed for that purpose.  When the time comes it will be obvious what is going on, the sides will be clearly drawn.  

Daniel 9:25-24 tells us the final sign of the Anti-Christ’s arrival, specifically verses 26 & 27.  “After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.  The people of the ruler yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.  The end will come like a flood:  War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.  He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven,’ but in the middle of that ‘seven,’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering.  And one who causes desolation will place abominations on a wing of the temple, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

A huge amount of time is covered in this passage.  The Anointed One was cut off and seemed to “have nothing.”  For an ordinary Jewish man, whose focus was on his nation and family, this meant no heirs; for the Jewish radicals of Jesus’ day who hoped He’d bring an end to Roman rule, this meant He failed to take up His scepter and drive the Romans out.  But “people of the ruler yet to come,” did come, in A.D. 70.  The Romans destroyed the city and the sanctuary, even going so far as to throw every stone down in order to get to the gold that melted and flowed down between the rocks, see Matthew 24:1 & 2.  The “end will come like a flood” suddenly jumps to “the end” which hasn’t arrived yet, though we see signs of its coming.  “He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven’,” this “he” is Anti-Christ.  He makes a “covenant.”  What does the covenant provide?  Well, according to the rest of the verse, it will provide the Jews with a new temple.

Currently the Dome of the Rock mosque occupies the Jewish temple site; any person with a Bible or a Torah in hand who tries to visit the temple site is thrown out.  Yet, Daniel says Anti-Christ will make a deal allowing the Jews to rebuild their temple, and it will happen.  Devout Jews in Israel have already been working toward that objective, they are training priests to serve and they have anointed the cornerstone.  But Anti-Christ is still hidden within the undifferentiated mass of humanity, the “sea,” Daniel speaks of elsewhere and John mentions in Revelation 13.  But, when you hear of a person talking of a deal between Jews and Muslims that will permit the Jews to build their temple, you know that you are about to be “taken out” and you will receive your resurrection body and the Tribulation will begin immediately after that.

Until such time as the Gospel has been preached to every people, tribe and nation, then God will hold everything in dynamic tension, on the brink, and we will continue to take ground for Him, see Matthew 24:14.  After the Gospel has been preached to the whole world, then the end will come and not before.

Believers have nothing to fear, but we need to preach the Gospel so that as many of our friends and loved ones as will receive the Lord may do so.

Marilyn