Expert: Marilyn - 10/19/2007

Question
Hello Marilyn and blessings,

I have a request for you, if you could break down these Bible quotes and their meanings for me, An Atheist said for 1Cor. 11-14 that this shows us that Jesus was wrong for having long hair, when this scripture show us that long hair should be prohibited.

Here are the other scriptures

Deut. 22: 28-29
Deut. 22: 23-24

2Sam 12:11-14

Exodus 21:20-21
Exodus 21;2-6

I would really appreciate it if you could help me out with these scriptures and their meanings, I hope all is well with you and hope to hear from you soon!!


Answer
Hello Junior;

Recently I stumbled on an atheist's blog where the person seemed to boast of stumping a Christian with a verse wherein God is described as having created darkness--at least that's what my NIV translation said.  He seemed to crow how the Christian couldn't handle the idea that God had created evil.  You gave me a list of Scripture passages dealing with societal training God wanted to give newly released slaves.  I assume atheists you're debating dragged out these passages as examples of some stupidity of God's.  I assume that because it seems to be the trend to dig out verses, usually out of context, and challenge believers with them--sometimes with no discussion of context allowed.  It occurs to me that this strategy is nothing more than distraction from the real question and answer upon which Christianity rests.  

The question is:  Did Jesus really rise from the dead?  This is the crucial question requiring an answer, until it's answered, all other questions don't matter.

First, let's establish an foundational fact:  Jesus was a real Person who lived in history during the Roman times.  And like all Rabbis He had a group of disciples who followed Him around trying to absorb His teachings. Josephus, a Jewish historian, wrote about Jesus as a true, actual Person.  I believe I copied a quote from a Jewish history site from Josephus' work describing Jesus and offering a confirming tidbit about His ministry. FACT:  Jesus was a sure-enough, real Person, pretty much functioning in the earth as the four Gospels describe.

Did He rise from the dead?  The four Gospels say He did.  Various arguments have been posited to explain how this is a falsehood.  Let's acknowledge those arguments exist and cut to the crux.  All the disciples, save John who was exiled, died for preaching Jesus raised from the dead.  Now, atheist, answer this question:  Would a person die for a lie?

What do the Apostles have to gain from dying for a lie?  Almost to a man, they died torturous deaths, they didn't reap vast financial rewards, there were no book deals, no sweet chicks clinging to their coat hems--what could possibly be the motivation for these men to die for a lie?

The Apostles, by their willingness to die for preaching Jesus raised from the dead prove Jesus was indeed raised. And since Jesus was raised, God must be real and the Bible His very Word.

I don't think it's our responsibility to defend every verse of the Bible to atheists whose objective isn't sincere understanding and comprehension, but scoffing and debunking.  

Since we're Christians, let's discuss the single, most important foundational belief all Christians share:  Jesus rose from the dead.  As the Apostle Paul says, if Jesus isn't raised from the dead then Christianity is nothing and believers' hope is futile.

In debates it's difficult to keep to the central issue.  Atheists have become masters at drawing Christians away from the core issue into little traps where they think they can prove Christians are idiots.  They don't realize that they're the ones who are in the trap and the solid Christian, though he may fall in, he doesn't remain there.  The atheist lives in the trap, fooled by his own pride in his smarts.

I once heard Kenneth Copeland, that hated "blab it and grab it" preacher, say, "The war ain't over 'til I win."  Every seeming defeat in a verbal battle may hurt, but you learn something every time.  You are the winner, that's a forgone conclusion.  God has the "I win" card and He's given it to you; everything He has belongs to you because you're a joint-heir with Jesus.  You can't lose unless you give up.  And even then, if you give up, it doesn't have to be a permanent state, you can still come back to win--that's the beauty of God's greatness.

Be encouraged.  Keep to the core and may the Lord anoint you  with His Holy Spirit to give you the words you need.

Marilyn

P.S. upon further reading, the Christian history book I recommended tows the politically correct view of the Crusades rather than teaching the facts. I think the rest of it is accurate, but if I discover more problems I'll let you know.



So, this atheist knows Jesus had long hair?  Wow, where does the Bible say He had long hair?  I've never found any verse that describes Jesus with long hair.  

What exactly is the problem with Deuteronomy 22:28 & 29?  Given that these people had spent 400 years in slavery--which incidentally means "property, to be disposed of as the owner sees fit"--I fail to see how a command, which places a value on a young woman, is a problem.  It would be a problem today, and it should be, after 2000 years of Christianity influencing how people think and what they value.  (Don’t you think it odd that Islam’s commands (beat your wife, kill the infidel (that means Jews, Christians and atheists), take up to four wives, etc. etc.), are not open to ridicule, but commands in the Bible from thousands of years ago for people who lived thousands of years ago are?)

In Deuteronomy we're not talking about people of today; we're talking about people who had just barely been released from slavery.  They thought like slaves, they acted like slaves--they had no idea how to think and act like free people.  To their minds, a girl was for sexual pleasure, to be kicked out in the street when the man finished with her.  If a person can realize that woman had no value whatsoever, then it also must be understood that a man had very little more in those days.  First, God must establish that a girl has value, then He can work on the next concept.

Deuteronomy 22:23 & 24.  Again, if someone has a problem with this verse, it's because our culture is so vastly different from the culture existing when this verse was written.  We can hardly conceive how these people lived.  

The girl is pledged to marry.  That means she's as good as married and if she doesn't scream and resist, then she's committed adultery.  Today, adultery is acceptable.  Today, people develop myriads of rationalizations for sexual sins of all kinds; some don't even try to rationalize--they just do it.  Everybody does it.  “Sex and the City” says it’s ok and everybody on “Friends” sleeps around, sex is no big deal, it’s like eating a hamburger; if you want one eat it.  No, wait.  It’s not ok to eat a hamburger anytime you want.  Fat is not ok, but sleeping with the neighbor’s wife, if it’s ok with her--that’s ok.  There are whole groups of people ready to "stone to death" persons who wear fur coats or drive Hummers.  There are people who advocate abortion who rail against capital punishment.  I think that kind of logic is insane.  What's really important?  Shouldn't keeping your word and behaving honorably toward your fiancé or spouse be more important than whether you own a mink coat or drive a Hummer?

What's going on here is God trying to get through some very thick heads what should be valued and what should not be valued.  A girl's promise to her future spouse has a very high value and breaking that promise should have a very high price.  If a guy sleeps with a girl who's pledged, he's committed adultery too.  

The family unit, mom, dad and the kids, is the foundation of a stable culture and economy, without it a people sow to the wind and will reap a tornado.  (I guess, some people in the United States are discovering this as single motherhood becomes more fashionable.  It may come to the point where the entire nation can enjoy the tornado.)  These people God dealt with here in Deuteronomy are incredibly dense and God had to get through to them:  Keep your promises. Honor your vows.  If you’re being raped--scream.  If you don’t scream everybody will assume you agreed to have sex with the guy.  And if you have sex with a guy not your husband, then the punishment is death.  

Promise breaking won’t build a stable culture.  Adultery, divorce, promiscuity, that kind of promise breaking puts a people into slavery.  God’s trying to get them out of slavery; He’s not going to enable them to stay in it.

II Samuel 12:11-14.  What is the problem with this passage?  Is it the fact that God plans to take the baby's life?  I suppose if you're an atheist, all you have is this life, but for the believer, there is a better life waiting.  David says in verses 22 & 23, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept.  I thought, "Who knows?  The Lord may be gracious to me and let the child live."  But now that he is dead, why should I fast?  Can I bring him back again?  I will go to him, but he will not return to me."

David believes he will see his son again.  The price is paid, now let's get on with life and not screw up anymore.

The Lord may have had other reasons for taking the child, ones we won't know until we get to Heaven.  But David as commander must learn he cannot do the despicable act of abusing his power, taking a life and stealing a man's woman.  He must pay the price and this is the price that will get the lesson through to him.  His son went directly to Heaven.  David will see him again.  

Life's lessons are often hard, even today after the Lord Jesus has paid the price.  The person who thinks nothing is worth a life doesn't truly value life.  Example:  European leaders appeased Hitler because they didn't think it worth lives to fight him.  The result:  their appeasement cost even more lives.  The same will be true if certain leaders get their way regarding the war in Iraq and the fight against terrorism.

Was it worth the baby's life to get through to David that his behavior must be above reproach?  God thought so and David understood that.  Do the soldiers who signed up to fight in Iraq think beating terrorism and keeping the homeland safe is worth a life?  Yes, apparently they do!  I personally know of one soldier who spent his first two tours in an air-conditioned building running computers, but this time he's going into Baghdad.  To withdraw from Iraq now would be to announce to the world that we do not value our soldiers’ lives.  What would it say we do value?  Pleasure?  Cowardice?  Selfishness?  I shudder to think.

David sinned.  He screwed up big time.  The Lord took the baby’s life.  Earlier in the chapter, David told Nathan that the man who stole the lamb should die.  God could have taken David’s life, but then who would run the country?  God needed David, but He needed him to straighten up.  Taking the baby’s life was the way to do that.  What’s worse, if a soldier gives his life in Iraq to save his homeland and we pull out before the job is finished or God takes a baby’s life to get the king of the land to straighten up?  To demonstrate life is valued, sometimes a life must be given (or taken).  

Exodus 21:20 & 21.  Once again, we're talking about people who used to be slaves.  Now that they can own slaves they don't have a clue how to treat them.  Does this atheist person imagine that in a culture where slavery is rampant that God can start out by banning slavery?  Do you teach a baby he shouldn't cheat on a test when he doesn't even understand yet that he shouldn't tell a fib about getting a cookie?  Start small and work up to big.  First, establish that the slave's life has value--then we'll work on the part about ending slavery.

Exodus 21:2-6.  Interestingly enough, George Washington faced a similar problem.  Together he and his wife owned some slaves, the slaves intermarried.  Now his slaves have children by her slaves.  She can't dictate what happens to her slaves because her actions are controlled by the will that gave her the slaves in the first place.  George couldn't free his slaves because then they'd be separated from their spouses.  Though he wanted to free them all, he couldn't do it until both he and Martha had died.  At least, that's how I understand what I've read about his slave problems.  Please read up on it yourself before you quote me.

Family issues regarding slaves are complicated.  Certainly, the slave owner can free the woman along with the Hebrew husband, if he saw fit, but this command recognizes his "right" according to the culture in which God found these people, to keep the woman and her offspring.  God knows He can’t ban slavery, not in the first generation.  Change how people think, then they’ll change how they behave.  

This verse places the burden on the male slave.  He can either choose his freedom and leave his family, or have his ear pierced and become a slave for life.    

A lot of modern people's problems with the Old Testament, especially in the books of law, are that we don't understand the cultures in which these people lived.  We don't understand that God works in increments, training people gradually.  C. S. Lewis warned about becoming “snobs in time,” that is, looking back at people in the past and judging.  The problem with being a “snob in time” is that, just like those people in the past, we are doing some things wrong and we’re blind to those things.  

First establish that a girl has value.  Once you’ve established that, then you can move up to the next level.  

Jesus raised women’s value very explicitly.   He revealed Who He was and Why He was here to a sinful Samaritan woman at a well.  This is a woman that the Apostles wouldn’t have even looked at, never mind spoken to.  She was the scum of the earth.  The woman caught in adultery was dragged before Him, the double standard of the day in full evidence since the man wasn’t also included.  He didn't pretend that these women weren't sinners.  In the case of the Samaritan woman, Jesus made her realize she was a valued human being and He loved her--He told her His biggest secret and what He’d come to earth to do and then gave her His Gift.  For the woman caught in adultery, He just made the men recognize that they were sinners too!   Both of those were huge revelations for that day.  Both of those incidents, and others, literally changed the world forever.  

God sent Jesus at the right time when human beings were ready for the next level.  Any sooner and He would have wasted His time.  God recognizes He's not working with perfected material; He doesn't demand perfection instantly.  He's in the business of training and lifting and those take time and patience.  To modern people His Old Testament punishments seem harsh and bizarre, but unless the modern person makes the effort to understand what kind of people God is working with and what kind of a world they lived in, they have no business judging God.  And they're foolish to assume that those people thought and believed as we do--even atheists, who probably have no idea how much of their own thinking is the result of Christian influence.

I think that some of those people, like Abraham or Job, Joshua or Caleb, would be astonished to observe our culture and what we as a group seem to think is important.  Stem cell research using embryonic cells--sounds like sacrificing your baby to Molech so the crops will be good this year.  Arguing that a convicted killer should go free while saying that a woman has a "right to choose" to kill her unborn infant--sounds like Jezebel.  Slandering a woman because she wears a mink coat or trying to bankrupt a company because they serve chicken while living sexually promiscuous life styles and condoning homosexuality?  Minks and chicken have more value than a person’s promise to their spouse?  Minks and chicken have more value than the promiscuous person making the protest has for his own family, body and heart?  The logic is just not there.

Recently I read a book titled, "Fatal Purity:  Robespierre and the French Revolution," by Ruth Scurr.  Want to see what man can create when he takes atheism to its logical extension?  Read that book.  It brought home to me that atheism is the way of death.  Just look at seventy years of communism, Pol Pot, Mao...the French Revolution.  God's rules in Exodus and Deuteronomy may sound bizarre to us today after 2000 years of Christian influence, but I'll take His peculiar rulings over the madness of atheism any day.

Sincerely,

Marilyn