Expert: Florence M Rollwagen - 8/17/2008

Question
QUESTION: In terms of house cleaning I am thinking of using superoxygenated water and steam  to disinfect my house. From time to time I think I will still use diluted bleach. I figured rotating them will make it hard for the bacteria to adapt. Do you think I should still use diluted bleach? I like the idea of just using superoxygenated water if possible to reduce toxins and in terms of cost but wanted to run it by you. Are both going to kill similar bacteria? (pretty much everything except prions and endospores)? Is there anything that will kill those?

Thanks,

Chris

ANSWER: Hi Chris: Thanks for your questions.

First, let me address the cleanliness issue.  Most immunologists think that excessive cleaning may be responsible for the increase in allergy and eczema.  This is known as the Hygiene hypothesis.  What it really means is that exposure to infectious agents and allergens at a young age allows the immune system to expand and grow.  If this does not happen, inappropriate immune responses such as allergy may occur.  Think of children learning a language.  Very young children learn languages easily, but as we age, this ability lessens.  By the time we are 60 or so, learning language is much more difficult.

Here are some websites on the hygiene hypothesis:

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/452170
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070905174501.htm

Second, on the issue of superoxygenated water.  In researching for an answer to your question, I found many sites claiming that superoxygenated water can kill bacteria, molds and viruses.  There is no scientific evidence that ozone, superoxygenated water or any other kind of water is effective at killing bacteria.

Here are some websites that refute the many claims for superoxygenated water:
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/oxyscams.html
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/PhonyAds/oxcgen.html

In fact, I would recommend that you investigate www.Quackwatch.com for analysis of any claims from internet vendors.

Here are the contents of one product that I found:

Active ingredients: Hypochlorous Acid, Non-Ionic Surfactant, Chlorine, Chlorine Dioxide, Hydrogen Peroxide, Ozone.

Translation: Clorox, soap, chlorine, peroxide, ozone (O3).  Cost $3.00/one half cup!  That’s more expensive than gasoline!

If you’re already using clorox, why would you think that this product would be better?  Ozone is three oxygen molecules stuck together (instead of the two molecules stuck together that we breathe).  It’s responsible for that thunderstorm smell, since lightening forms ozone.  Once you open the bottle, ozone disappears.  

While ozone has been shown to be a good disinfectant, it has to be generated on the spot, it cannot be stored because of it’s high reactivity (that’s what makes it a good disinfectant).

I don’t know how you would use steam, unless it’s one of those carpet steam cleaners.  They’re very good for deep cleaning and probably kill some of the sensitive fungi.  I wouldn’t count on their ability to kill bacteria and viruses, however.  

In microbiology, we use a combination of steam and high pressure in an autoclave to kill bacteria and endospores.  Regular heat (boiling) will kill fungi and many bacteria, but you can’t boil your house.  Nothing will kill prions, remember they are still active after cooking.  Ultraviolet light will kill viruses, fungi and some bacteria (remember our grandmothers putting clothes on a line outside?

Other ways to kill viruses include sonication (not practical for home use) and radiation (again, not practical).

In my opinion, if you want an inexpensive effective natural home cleaner, you can’t go wrong with vinegar.  I use diluted vinegar with a dash of dishwashing soap in a spray bottle.  Works great, and I’m not worried about having a sterile environment.

I hope this answer has helped you.  Please write back if you have more questions.

FM Rollwagen, PhD

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: The hygiene hypothesis is only applicable to children correct?

I don't have any children but when I do I will encourage them to play outside (I live in IA, there is nothing else to do) and we will have a dog. Will this solve the hygiene hypothesis for me?

For super-oxygenated water, I am not referring to the bottled water claims. I am referring specifically to the Lotus cleaning system by Tersano and the monster1200. The Lotus system was one of Time magazines best inventions of 2006.

Here is their website: www.tersano.com
(It was down at the time I am sending this but I'm sure it will be back up shortly.)

Here is a quick overview:

http://www.smithgear.com/lot-lbu100.html

If I remember correctly, one has to use it within 15 minutes of making it super-oxygenated in order for it to be effective.

Also, the monster 1200 uses steam and super-oxygenated water to clean and sanitize:

http://www.monster1200.com/Default.asp?bhcp=1

I just got done with a microbiology class in college and we were told that we can't be too clean; we are exposed to antigens everywhere we go. The goal is to keep bacteria levels down so we don't get sick.

I had a dog for 17 our of 23 years of my life - no allergies or asthma and I work as a nurse so am exposed to plenty of antigens on a daily basis. I didn't think there was anything that could kill prions or endospores for home clean application but figured it does not hurt to double check :)

Thanks again, please let me know what you think.


Answer
Hi Chris:  I couldn't get into that website either.  I haven't forgotten your question, just still working on it.

Sit tight

FM Rollwagen, PhD

Here's a followup:

Hi again, I finally finished researching your question.

Actually, since our immune systems are turning over constantly, we need to be “tolerized” to antigens and bacteria on a relatively constant basis, so the hygiene hypothesis applies mostly to children, but also to adults.

Whoever said we can’t be too clean is having problems understanding bacterial competition.  We live in a sea of bacteria, all of which are competing for nutrients, oxygen and secreting toxic waste products.  This high level of normal microbes helps to keep in check the few nasty ones out there.  That’s why when we’re given antibiotics for an infection we often develop diarrhea, because all the “good” (i.e., normal) bacteria are killed off, and our guts can’t respond correctly.  You must have learned in micro how bacteria contribute to digestion in animals (yes, us) and how bacteria synthesize the essential clotting Vitamin K.

For a good look at this phenomenon, search Google Images for “biofilms”
Biofilms provide competition for pathogens, but they also provide hiding places and protection from bacteriocidal agents.  So it’s not a win-win situation.

Germ free mice (who have lived their whole lives in sterile environments) have impaired immune responses.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/112749977/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/112154436/abstract

As for getting rid of bacteria and viruses on the surfaces of your produce, a vinegar wash will do just as well.  Don’t forget, you don’t need to kill the bacteria, just send them down the drain.

In our micro class we make a distinction between bacteriostatic, bacteriocidal and surfactant agents.  Hand washing, for example, doesn’t kill anything, it just disrupts the adhesion of bacteria to skin.  So just washing produce with soap will get rid of most of the bacteria.  Don’t recommend this for lettuce, however [grin].

Exposure to antigens keeps our immune system healthy.

Since you’re a nurse, you know that in the hospital environment, cleanliness is essential.  This is largely because of all the antibiotic resistant organisms there.  If you wash your hands before you leave, and again upon returning home, you should be fine.  

In searching information on the Lotus Sanitizer here’s what I found:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=67724  very skeptical!

Here’s another blog with people who have had good/bad results:
http://www.neofill.com/nf_B000P9MC2K.html  Click on “see more” at the bottom of the page for more comments.

It seems as if this thing might actually work, although I was skeptical at the time (still am, actually)

The people who had the most problems found that the machine didn’t accommodate their water supply, and Lotus recommended that they use bottled water.  This will significantly increase your costs.


Personally, I wouldn’t buy this thing, since I think the vinegar/water cleanser does it’s job for me.  

I don’t think you’ll come to any harm from using it, but I do think it’s a waste of money.

Remember, we live in a sea of bacteria, we have evolved to survive that way.  I don’t think that getting rid of every bug is necessary or even desirable.

Hope this helps, write back if you have more questions.

FM Rollwagen, PhD