Expert: Dana Krempels, Ph.D. - 9/2/2010

Question
QUESTION: Previous Question to John Locke: (now on vacation)
He suggests alternate pathways to rid the body of CO2.  HOw/what?

What happens in build up of CO2 that cannot be processed by the body?

In the three forms to transport CO2 the total extreme amounts to 10%+10%+ 75%= 95%.  What about additional %5?

Par 4 of previous reply.  What happens when excess CO2 builds up in the BS?

Par 5.  If build up of CO2 is access does the body produce more bicarbonates (alkalines)?  And does the body respond by producing more acids to control this?  How long does this process take?

What are some of the host of problems created by this?

Ref net site provided.  Have previously contacted Dr. Schwartz in Paris and communicated on subject. TY

Note here-my interest lie in the study of Laminitis (as I feel Laminitis cure as the same as Cancer cures in humans)in horses and this is prodominatly the hoof which tissue is reported to be the same as skin.

ANSWER: Dear Wm,

I feel as if I'm kind of coming in on the middle of a conversation, so you'll forgive me if I answer your questions with some questions amid the answers, since I'm not sure *exactly* what you're looking for:

Quoting you:

"He suggests alternate pathways to rid the body of CO2.  HOw/what?"

Alternate to what?  Simple exhalation?

"What happens in build up of CO2 that cannot be processed by the body?"

Under normal circumstances (i.e., when the body is not under exertion), there should be little or no buildup of CO2.  But if the body is deprived of oxygen for too long, excess CO2 dissolves in the blood and takes the form of carbonic acid.

"In the three forms to transport CO2 the total extreme amounts to 10%+10%+ 75%= 95%.  What about additional %5?"

What three forms are you talking about?

"Par 4 of previous reply.  What happens when excess CO2 builds up in the BS?"

Since I was not privy to the previous discussion, I'm not sure what Part 4 was.  But when too much CO2 builds up in the bloodstream, the increasing acidity in the blood can ultimately cause unconsciousness.  See:

http://toxics.usgs.gov/definitions/hypoxia.html

Hypoxia results in CO2 buildup, so the two are pretty much two sides of the same coin.

"Par 5.  If build up of CO2 is access does the body produce more bicarbonates (alkalines)?  And does the body respond by producing more acids to control this?  How long does this process take?"

You can get a thorough overview of this process here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_acidosis

"What are some of the host of problems created by this?"

By "this" do you mean acidosis?  Not very clear.  

Do you feel that laminitis in horses is caused by a buildup of CO2?  I'm not really sure where you're going with this, but hope this might be of some small help.

Dana

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi, Dana sorry to put u in the middle.  I was hoping to get my mail to John Locke.  I have no real memory so I must do what ever when I think of it.
In answer to your last question I do believe that CO2 is the primary cause of Laminitis in horses and many Cancers.
Dr. Locke suggested that"there may be alternate pathways to handle this waste product or it may simply build up." What are they?
If I suggest my hypothesis it may be much easier to set me on a safe course.
Known causes or triggering mechanism of Laminitis consist primarily of Carbohydrate overload (CHO) and toxins such as Black Walnut Extract (BWE).
In CHO Fructans produced in grasses are thought to be cause of onset of disease.  CO2 and H2O2 are also reported to be produced by the grasses that are ingested by the horse.  And CO2 is reported to produce the sugars that are ingested.  And thru respiration and breathing these same sugars can revert back to CO2 once ingested.  As the horse must extend its neck to consume grasses and apparently cannot breath properly when swallowing.  Therefore making CO2 an issue to be considered.
When reading on BWE it appears that CO2 inhibits other plants from "breathing" properly and appears to present similar problems as that with the grasses and CO2.
Numerous other connections with Insulin resistance, Cushions Syndrome, retained Placenta, Acidosis, Inflammation, etc.all show some connection with CO2.
My real hypothesis is that Borrelia burgdorferi (Bb) the agent that causes Lyme disease is the real culprit, not only in Laminitis , Cancers but most Bacterial diseases.  I hope u can set me straight.  Ty  bill

ANSWER: Dear Wm,

"Dr. Locke suggested that"there may be alternate pathways to handle this waste product or it may simply build up." What are they?"

If Dr. Locke is aware of such alternative pathways, I certainly don't know them.  I think CO2 is removed from the body fairly quickly.  

On the other hand, if you're talking about an anoxic area where opportunistic methane-producing and/or -oxidizing bacteria have taken up residence, then all bets are off.  Such an area would not be highly vascularized (that's the problem!), so necrosis will occur much more readily, especially if bacteria in the pocket are adding to the mess.

"Known causes or triggering mechanism of Laminitis consist primarily of Carbohydrate overload (CHO) and toxins such as Black Walnut Extract (BWE)."

I'm not an expert in the veterinary care of horses, so I can't really comment on these hypotheses.  Not really sure how carbohydrate overload (in the diet?) could contribute to laminitis, unless the horse's GI suffers dybiosis because of too much carb.  This, in turn, can cause colic and other problems.  

Black Walnut contains powerful toxins that actually shut down the Krebs Cycle, killing tissues.  I'm not sure how this would cause localized laminitis, unless the toxin was injected into the area and caused local necrosis.

From the rest of what you've written here, I am not convinced that CO2 buildup could be responsible for necrosis any more than exposure to water could be.  Correlation does not imply cause and effect. A couple of studies have suggested a GI connection, but I think all of this is still very much in the exploratory phase.

You might want to have a look at some scholarly articles on laminitis research:

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=laminitis&hl=en&btnG=Search&as_sdt=40001&as_

and try to pick those apart.  But I'm afraid I don't have enough expertise in this area to really guide you much further.

Hope this helps a little, though.

Good luck!
Dana




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Forgive me for being a die hard.
First of all I guess I should establish that the condition is diseased and not normal.
If CO2 builds up in the blood and is converted to carbonic acid doesn't that mean alkalosis?
Your reference to necrosis and water--doesn't water even one molecule cause a reaction with CO2?
Doesn't alkalosis mean the body will react trying to even out acid and alkaline?  Isn't this the process that makes acidosis?
And doesn't acidosis eventually produce carbonic acid which does the whole thing over until the body levels out?
I look at anything scholarly on Laminitis and feel they spend millions and  learn very little!!
Again TY

Answer
Dear Wm

"First of all I guess I should establish that the condition is diseased and not normal."

If you mean laminitis, then yes, I'm aware of that.

"If CO2 builds up in the blood and is converted to carbonic acid doesn't that mean alkalosis?"

Unless I'm mistaken, this causes acidosis.

"Your reference to necrosis and water--doesn't water even one molecule cause a reaction with CO2?"

I don't see anywhere that I linked necrosis and water.  I linked it with a lack of oxygen.  

"Doesn't alkalosis mean the body will react trying to even out acid and alkaline?  Isn't this the process that makes acidosis?
And doesn't acidosis eventually produce carbonic acid which does the whole thing over until the body levels out?"

If the body's homeostatic mechanisms are working properly, that's what should happen.  Who knows what can happen in an area where vascularization has been reduced or cut off?  I imagine the system will pretty much go haywire.

"I look at anything scholarly on Laminitis and feel they spend millions and  learn very little!!"

Step by step, the longest march can be won.  But if you have anything to add to the story, then I hope you can help!  It's certainly a terrible condition.

Dana