Expert: Chrys Meatyard - 9/11/2006

Question
Dear Chrys,
thank you so much for your helpful advice. I did take her to the vet when I got her because she was in a bad way, but he didn't know much about Lovebirds and the whole experience was so stressful for her I didn't want to repeat it. It's a fantastic idea to take her to see a vet who is expert in Lovebirds (I feel quite stupid that I didn't think of it myself!) and I will call my vet tomorrow to see if there is anyone he can recommend.
This sounds silly, I know but I wouldn't like her to have babies while she was with me - I wouldn't be able to let any of them go unless I knew who was going to have them personally. I would love her to be able to have a freer life in an Aviary maybe with other lovebirds and a mate, but worry that if I have not made the right decision I have let her down.
She does have 4 mirrors and when she is not nesting spends the majority of her time sitting up close to one as if it is a mate. She has come out of the cage on her own, but is a terrible flier and crashes a lot. Also getting her back is quite stressful - I am now at the stage when sometimes she will step onto the end of a wooden spoon, but won't stay there long enough for me to get her back to her cage I usually end up throwing a teatowel over her! She goes out in the garden in her cage every day when the weather is good and likes 'chatting' to the other birds. The 'dummy eggs' sound very interesting - I will definately give them a go.I have tried her on all sorts of foods over the last 2 years and haven't given up yet! She stubbornly sticks to seed and celery though. I have tried all fruits  and every vegetable that I can think of raw and cooked!
My first port of call though is going to be the vet. Can I let you know how she gets on Chrys?
Thank you very much for your help,
Lea-------------------------

Followup To

Question -
Hello, I'm sorry but this is going to be a bit longwinded as I want you to know my bird's history. 2 years ago I rescued a Lovebird from an elderly lady who had no idea how to look after her. I had no idea either, but found information on the internet. When I got her she was 2 years old and had spent her whole life in a cage with no toys,no bath, no bed, no stimulation (not even radio or TV), had never been handled or let out of her cage and only ate seed and celery. We have come to the conclusion that she is demented. She has always had a lot of missing feathers on her chest, legs, bottom of her back and shoulder and has also had periods when she has made herself bleed. She now has a large cage with toys which are rotated weekly and space to flap her wings. She has Apple wood perches which she enjoys stripping and are changed regularly. She has a seagrass roost nest type thing and a nest box. When we first got her I spent a year just sitting in the evenings with my hand just inside her cage to try to eventually be able to handle her with a view to her coming out of her cage. This hasn't worked and she still won't come too near to my hand. When we first got her she stopped pulling out feathers for about a month. As she became more used to her new cage/toys etc she began pulling them again. I have tried quite a few things to stop this like buying bird song cd's to play and interactive toys etc all to no avail, it stops her initially but as soon as she gets used to whatever it is she starts again- I believe that her very bad start in life has affected her mentally. The only time that she stops pulling feathers completely is when she is building a nest - I got her first nest box about 1 1/2 years ago and bought some New Zealand Palm plants to cut for her to build a nest with. She was VERY happy nest building and went on to lay 4 obviously infertile eggs. I did some more research as to when I should remove them and did so when she seemed to lose interest. I obviously did so too soon as she bit her legs and chest and made them bleed. This was so distressing to see that I removed the nest box and threw it away.
I bought another one in spring this year and installed it. She is so very happy when she is nest building - it is the only time when you can see really natural behaviour in her and it's a joy to watch her. She's now on her 2nd nest and 2nd clutch of 4 eggs. Although I give her lots of sources of calcium I'm concerned for her to keep laying eggs and so  after I took the 1st clutch of eggs and nest away left it for quite a while before I gave her more nesting materials. She began building her current nest a couple of months ago and laid 4 eggs about 3 or 4 weeks ago. This week she is showing less interest in the eggs and one night has slept in her seagrass roost instead of the nestbox. She is still sitting on the eggs at times though and I want to make sure that I take the eggs away at  the very best time to cause her the least distress.

I'm so sorry that this enquiry is so long, but I think thay she may live for another 8 years yet and would like to ask:-
As she so adores nest building, how often should I let her build one and should I wait until she is completely disinterested before I remove the egss and the nest?
Thank you very much in advance for any advice which you are able to give.
Lea

Answer -
Hi, Lea.  Thanks for posting!  What an interesting story.  You are a great person for taking this lovebird in and getting her away from her previous terrible life.

To answer your questions, you should not allow your lovebird to continue to lay and lay infertile eggs.  I understand that it makes her very happy to do this, but it's not good for her overall health in the long run.

Have you thought about getting this lovebird a mate and allowing them to really have offspring?  I ask this because sometimes when birds are removed from bad situations, they just are never the same, especially if they've been raised since a fledgling in the terrible situation.  You may never be able to tame this lovebird down enough to be able to handle her...she may always fear your hands/fingers.  Problem with babies is that you'd have to handfeed them with baby parrot handfeeding formula and a handfeeding syringe in order for the babies to be tame enough so you can sell/give them away.  You might also want to consider selling/giving this bird away to a breeder to be used as a breeder only.  If a second bird is out of the question, you might want to consider giving your lovebird a mirror.  Mirrors often take the place of a real bird in a parrot's eyes...they think the bird in the mirror is real.  This might help some.  

Have you ever left her cage door open and allow her to come out of her cage on her own?  Some parrots, even tame parrots, are frightened of humans' hands/fingers, but they will come out of their cages and interact with their humans, but just not allow their humans to touch/pet them (some will sit on finger, but reluctently).  

You could also try using "dummy" eggs.  See this website:  http://www.fakebirdeggs.com/.  There are other websites also with this type product...search using the key words "dummy parrot eggs" or "dummy avian eggs" or "artificial parrot eggs."  This will allow her to sit on eggs, but not actually go through the laying process.  

Self-mutilation is something some parrots do who have psychological problems.  I'd say your lovebird is a good candidate for psychological problems!  You need to find out what her psychological problem(s) are in order to be able to treat/work with her.  This lovebird likely has many.  

What type of diet do you have her on?  Hopefully, you've switched her from an all-seed diet to a more healthy diet.  Visit my website for more information on this and other things:

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/birdinfo/index.html

I'd also recommend taking your lovebird to an avian veterinarian (not a cat/dog vet, but a bird/exotic animal vet) for a complete medical evaluation.  She might have medical conditions affecting her behavior that you are not aware of.  

I hoped I've helped some.  I think a vet visit is in order here for starters.  You'll need to consider some of the other ideas I've mentioned.  Come back with any questions.

Chrys

Answer
Hi again, Lea.

There are no bird vets that I know of who specialize in a particular species of parrot, but you need to ensure you take your lovebird to a bird vet if you haven't already.  Any bird vet should be knowledgeable enough about lovebirds.  This visit would be just to ensure there are no medical reasons for your lovebird mutilating himself and that s/he is healthy.

I understand what you mean about ensuring babies would go to a good home.  This is why I interview potential buyers for my birds, as I feel the same as you about my babies!  I interview them by phone first, then let them come to my home to see potential baby parrots while I interview them to see how much they know about caring for birds and so I can determine if they will have a good home once they leave my care.

I guess you need to decide what you think is best for your lovebird and go with that decision.  Either you are going to try and deal with the problems she currently has and resolve them or you need to let her go to a different environment where she can be happy.  This happier environment might be in a breeding situation and/or an aviary setup where there are also other untame birds.  You're not going to know what's the right decision in advance...you just have to do it (whatever it is) and see if it works out.  You may or may not know if you have let her down...all you can do is make the best decision you can with the information you currently have available.

Why is she a terrible flier?  Are her wings clipped?  Is she handicapped in some way?  The reason wing flight feathers are kept clipped is for safety reasons and also so you can get a parrot back into it's cage when it is outside it's cage.  With clipped wing feathers, tame parrots stay tame longer and clipped wing feathers provide safety to birds who are allowed outside their cages, since they have to rely on their humans for mobility.  

A parrot will not eat food it does not recognize as being food.  For all the bird knows when you put some new type of food in it's cage, the food is a toy or something other than food!  This is why you have to keep putting food in the cage, every day, until the bird tries the food and recognizes it as something to eat.  It would be like you or I going to a foreign country, having some strange food put in front of us that we don't recognize, and then someone expecting us to eat that food!  Not me!  I don't eat something until I know what it is and feel comfortable eating it.  Same with parrots.  Also, as long as the bird has seed available at the same time you offer other types of food, the parrot will ALWAYS choose the seed over the other foods.  Seed to a bird is like candy to a kid.  It takes good, so they love it, even though it isn't good for them (too much fat and little nutrition).

Yes, Lea, I'd really like for you to let me know how your lovebird is getting along.  I feel so sorry for birds who've been through bad situations like you describe your lovebird has been through.  I am interested in how s/he gets through this.  I'm sure your lovebird is so very grateful to you, even though s/he can't tell you so, for taking s/he away from her previous situation.  Sad thing is it happens so often to parrots.

Chrys