Expert: - 3/2/2011

Question
QUESTION: I know it's hard to give a definitive answer without knowing me or seeing me. Hopefully you can nudge me in the right direction. My Stats:

59 yr old male, 220+ ave on an easy shot. ave revs,more stroker than tweener, 17/18 mph, track on the low side, somewhat hook challenged as oil gets heavier.My "bad" shot is a non finishing spinner that feels   like thumb and fingers come out at once.Have a hard time freeing the thumb and getting that magic feeling of the ball in my fingers only.I feel like possibly there is a fitting issue.
  

What I know of my fit: approx 4 11/16 span(long thin fingers and flat 2 3/4" thumb), finger pitch 1/8 under with grips, thumb pitches 3/8 back and 1/4 away.
I've always had thumb issues. Inevitably wind up way oversized and have to notch out thumb because of major hang on inside of thumb. Once I get so I can get out, I can't hold it. I wind up taping in front and back of thumb.    I don't mind being a little oversized and using some tape, but what do you think the of that lateral pitch? I did the coke can test and my thumb hits my middle finger every time, which indicates 1/8" under palm. Also span plus 90* thumb flexibility point to maybe a little more back pitch. Don't want to change too much at once. Is that 1/4 away part of my hanging and low track/semi spinner issue? Can you suggest any changes?

Thanks,
Tom

ANSWER: Tom,
Are you right handed?

Sounds like the span, possibly a little long or a little short, contributes to your overturning at the release, while thumb and finger pitches could be tweaked to help the ball off your hand. Your thumb is long, is it also dry? or moist (slick or sticky)? 90 degrees is stiff, the lack of flexibility of the thumb joint can be an issue. Are the fingers stiff? What;s up with the forward pitch (if so)?

You used two terms (back and away) that I need to verify. I use the term reverse or forward for hole pitches (directed toward the center of the ball, so forward in the fingers is angled toward the thumb, while forward in the thumb is angled in, toward the fingers). And, for lateral pitches in the fingers or thumb, I found are best described by the direction of the angle (pitch to your palm for a right hander is right pitch, away from palm would be left pitch). What are the lateral pitches of your fingers?

Your thumb pitches are 3/8 reverse? and 1/4 left?  You have the kind of hand that when put into a round thumb hole your body naturally grips too much. Span and pitches should allow enough control of the ball that the thumb size shouldn't be an issue (obviously, that's not the case now). When you insert the thumb all the way into the thumb hole of your ball, then lay the fingers across the finger holes, where does the second crease cross the finger holes?

Thanks for the questions, please provide just a little more info (nice job on what you included though) and I can get a good idea of what going on.



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Warren,
Thanks for the quick response.I've gathered more info for you:

Thumb is dry although I usually swell and wind up powdering on side closest to index finger. Fingers I'd say are somewhat flexible. Got my drill sheet last night. Right handed. Spans 4 9/16 MF and 4 11/16 RF. Finger pitches 3/8 left and 1/8 forward for MF and 3/8 right and 1/8 forward for RF. Thumb 3/8 rev and 1/4 left.My second crease of fingers lays even with the far edge of the grip. Not sure of PAP. We tried to measure once but I think my driller uses a generic 5 over and 1/4 up.I think the forward pitch in the fingers is leftover from 10 yrs ago when the house I bowl in had wood lanes and they hooked like crazy and you needed a lot of loft. Thinking back now, I started having problems finishing the ball  when they went to synthetic.My normal shot was always hard straight up around 8 with room a little either way. Combo of age and only 34' of oil is making that more difficult. I'd like to be able to move deeper and get around the ball more.I hope I didn't get too involved here but I feel like maybe I can make an improvement with your advice. Thanks again,
Tom

Answer
Tom,
There are quite a few things that don't make sense about your fit. Congrats for overcoming all this and averaging well.

Swelling indicates aggressive grip pressure (bad). You powder the inside edge of the thumb, usually the result of a bent and gripping thumb trying to unwedge from a thumb hole. Your grip should have your hand flat on the ball, if your second crease is at the top of the finger holes when the hand is laid across the holes it sounds like your spans are a little short. With as long a thumb as you mentioned, it sounds like you have a pretty big hand. Any discoloration on the pads of the fingers? Abrasion, callousing on the sides of the thumb?

Your spinner release is usually the result of a fit that's too long or too short, I think yours may be to short. The lateral pitches don't help you get around the ball, leading to overturning. Forward pitch in the fingers keeps you in the ball too long, also contributing to the late release. Not sure what the left lateral pitch in the thumb is about. Your ball speed and low track ought to allow you to play the short pattern (34' not 43?). What ball or balls do you roll? How are they laid out?

Your driller may have you a little short because they are concerned about you getting out of the ball. Long fingers and thumb (big hand), stiff thumb (90 degrees), dry thumb should allow you to get flatter on the ball, utilize more reverse in the thumb, try no lateral thumb pitch, and go 0 forward on the fingers, got to get the ball off your hand near your ankle not have you pitch it way out onto the lane. Refit your spans, probably going to get you 1/8 - 1/4 longer (BUT CHECK)! Use 7/8 reverse with a loose hole or 1/2 with a tighter hole (or more) if you can get used to not bending your thumb.

You have a couple elements of your grip that are reminiscent of fits from the 80's and 90's. I'd use forward ONLY with very flexible fingers, possibly with a dropped ring finger. Short spans and long fingers, and a thumb covered in powder makes even holding on to the ball almost impossible. There are lots of things I might change. But in the midst of the league season I wouldn't do much, a wholesale change might throw off your delivery A BUNCH.  The additional questions will confirm some of my suppositions. What kind of device were you fit with?

Thanks for your questions. If you get through Chicago, give me a call!