Expert: Elyse Grau - 8/10/2010

Question
QUESTION: My rolls look beautiful until I put them in the oven.  Then they gradually start to fall over the course of the 15 minute cooking time. I have tried the following:
1.  Heating liquids to 105 to 110 degrees.  
2.  Add Active Dry Yeast for 5-10 minutes to bloom.
3.  Add liquid/yeast to flour, mix well.
4.  Cover with cup towel, let double in size(about 20 min)
5.  Punch down and make rolls.
6.  Let rise until double again(about 1 hr & 10 min)
7.  Put on middle rack 385 degree(tried 375, 385 & 390)
They are somewhat gooey in the middle and brown on top.
I tried pyrex, 8" cake pans and muffin tins.
Recipe:
1/4 c. sugar, 1 tsp salt, 1/4 c. water, 1 1/2 c. buttermilk and 1/2 c. vegetable oil.  Mix 4 1/4 c. flour with 1/2 tsp. soda.  Add to liquids & yeast mixture.

I have been using this recipe for 20 years and have been cooking for 50 years. It has given me a problem for about 3 or 4 years and I have tried it all. After doing some research, today I tried step 1 & 2 for the first time and timed each of the next steps.

I am wondering the following:
Am I proofing the yeast too long?
Am I not letting them rise long enough?
Am I not setting the oven hot enough for this recipe?

Somebody please help.  This recipe is usually my claim to fame. :)

ANSWER: I'm wondering why this recipe worked for you for 16 years and has since been giving you problems! If the first rise takes only 20 minutes, then I don't understand why the second rise is for so long. Did you write that correctly - dough for 20 minutes and rolls for 90? I would expect the opposite. Regardless, I think the problem could be too long of a second rise, not too short. Also, the rolls should be covered during the second rise so as not to dry on the top, which prevents bloom in the oven. And by letting the dough sit so long, the baking soda is rendered useless.

Is the dough kneaded? If so, you might be over-kneading it, which causes the dough to fall shortly after it rises in the oven. I'd also go with the lower baking temperature (375).

Elyse

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you so much for responding.  Not sure why it is giving me problems after all these years except that I moved to a new house with a different oven 4 years ago.

The first rise is really only for 10 minutes, but it does not double in size.  It only rises a little. I punch down the dough, then make into rolls.  No kneading is done.  Then they take anywhere from 1.5 to 2 hours to double and then I bake them.  

Also, I have never bloomed yeast before.  I just warmed the first 5 ingredients and added the yeast, stirred it in and then added the flour, mixed and put in a warm place with a cuptowel over the bowl for 10 minutes, punched down, made rolls without kneading them.

Yesterday, I made these rolls 4 times.  After reading the tips on the internet, I thought maybe I was getting bad yeast sometimes, even though it at least a year to the expiration date. The discussion was on blooming the yeast so I decided I needed to bloom the yeast....so I mixed the first 5 ingredients in a glass bowl and heated 110-115 degrees,  then added the yeast and let sit for 10 minutes. It became puffy and bubbly, so I added it to the flour & soda.  I decided to let the first rising double in size (took about 20 minutes) instead of just 10 minutes, then punched down and made the rolls and they rose beautifully. I do cover the rolls with a cuptowel when rising.  When I put them in the oven 375 degrees, they were fine, turned brown and then started to fall.  The bottom of the rolls were not brown AT ALL. The rolls in the middle were doughy and not done.  Each time, I did something a little different.  Once with glass pie plates and twice with 8" round cake pans and one with muffin tins.

Then I read about "salt" killing yeast, so I bloomed the yeast in water only and then added the other 4 ingredients.  Same problem with rolls sinking in oven and bottom and center rolls not done.

I think I have tried so many things, that I'm losing track even though I'm trying to chart as I go.

When these rolls come out right, I promise they are the best thing you've even put in your mouth.

I will continue to try and if you have any suggestions, please let me know.  Thank you again for your help.

ANSWER: If you'd like to send me the complete recipe, I'll try it and let you know. You didn't say how much yeast - I'm assuming a package, nor did you  mention kneading.

Elyse

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you again for all your help.
Here is the recipe.

1/4 c. sugar
1 tsp salt
1/4 c. water
1 1/2 c. buttermilk
1/2 c. vegetable oil.
2 pkgs. active dry yeast
4 1/2 c. all purpose flour, divided
1/2 tsp. soda

Mix first 5 ingredients and put in microwave. Get to temperature of 110-115 degrees.  Remove and put thermometer in liquid to make sure its not to hot.  Add yeast and stir just a little to moisten.  Let sit for 8-10 minutes.

Sift 4 1/4 c. flour and soda together in a bowl.  Now add yeast/liquid mixture to flour. Mix well.  Cover with cuptowel in a warm place for 10 minutes.  Punch down, sprinkle remaining 1/4 c. flour on board.  Knead 8 or 9 times and make rolls.  Let rise 1.5 to 2 hours until they double in size.  Bake 375 or 400 (not sure at this point)for about 15 minutes.

Thanks again  

Answer
Judy:
Sorry this took so long, I had to wait for the weather to cool down a bit before my husband would tolerate having the oven on.

Made the rolls last night, and they worked just fine. However, I only let them rise for one hour. They were doubled by that time. It occurs to me that that may be where the problem is. You should not be as concerned with the clock as with where the dough is. Once the rolls have doubled in size, letting them rise longer could result in their falling in the oven.

If necessary, test a roll by poking it with your finger. If it doesn't immediately start to spring back, it is done, and should go in the oven. Again, it's a mystery why this shouldn't have been a problem even once in the past, and is suddenly a common problem now. Maybe it's the time of year, or your house is warmer than in past years, I really don't know.

Give that a try and see if it helps.


Elyse