Expert: Ralph Onesti - 12/11/2011

Question
QUESTION: I'm getting plenty of lift on the first rise, but the second rise is never as much. Some loaves are better than others, but for the most part too heavy.
I Have been reading through your responses to other questions, and I'm guessing my problem is lack of sugar or fuel for the yeast.
Does that make sense?
Thank you :)

ANSWER: Hi Jeff:

short answer...nope!

The yeast has plenty to feed on with the flour.

Some questions:

1. are you making a straight dough or using a pre-ferment?

2. are you using dry yeast?

3. are you using INSTANT yeast?

Here are the "normal" steps in bread baking. Let's see if we match.

1. The night before make your pre-ferment...biga, poolish, sponge.
2. The day of the bake, mix all on first speed...in a kitchen aid...#1 for a few minutes
3. Mix on second speed...in a kitchen aid...#6-8...for 4 minutes until moderate gluten
4. Ferment the dough for one hour (76F), de-gas gently by the stretch and fold method.
5. Ferment for one more hour (76F)
6. If you're making more than one loaf, divide the dough and shape in to a rounds.
7. Let rest for 20 minutes, seam up, covered.
8. If your making one loaf, pre-shape into a round, let rest for 20 minutes, seam up, covered.
9. Shape loaves in desired shape.
10.Proof for 60-90 minutes depending on kitchen temp...NOT...in the oven...(76F)
11.The loaves should be sufficiently raised and at the touch of a finger should come back slowly. If it springs back quickly, it's not done proofing. Usually the sign of a cold kitchen.
12. The oven should have been on 45 minutes prior to baking to heat up the stone, assuming you are using a free form loaf and not a pan loaf. Score the loaves.
13. Baking is at 440F with STEAM.
14. Do NOT open the door for 12-15 minutes until you see "color" start to appear.
15. Open the door and rotate the loaves.
16. Bake for another 10-15 minutes until firm or the internal temp is around 205F.

How to make steam: on the bottom of the oven lives a cast iron pan. Just after loading the bread, carefully place a cup of pre-heated water...microwave. Quickly load the bread and shut that door. No opening the door until you see color!

Hint: there is NO puching down of dough. During the "stretch and fold" we gently pat the dough to de-gas as we fold the dough over on itself like a letter in both directions...that's four moves!

When we shape, before shaping we gently use the palm, not the fist or the fingers to pat out gas...then make your desired shape. This step is critical!

OK...

If you share with me your formula and baking method, we go over what we can do to improve your bake!



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Well...
First off, I had made a loaf and forgot the sugar, which turned out pretty heavy and flat. Since then (before I got your answer) I made a loaf and doubled my normal sugar, and it turned out pretty good. More airy and fluffy at the top, heavier at the bottom.

I'm just a guy trying to eat healthier and stay away from preservatives.

But here's my basic recipe. And I'm using a bread machine, I can hear you laughing already :) Yes I can bake by hand the old fashion way, my mom was quite the baker, and I cook alot, but time seems to be on the short side these days. So... I'd like to perfect this recipe as best I can. I've read your posts on weighing things, and I plan on getting a scale and weighing out my standard measurements, then working from there.

So here it is:
3 cups packed whole wheat flour
1 cup rolled oats
1 tbsp dry yeast
2 tbsp sugar
1 tsp salt
1 tbsp oil mix well then add
2 cups water

It usually comes out ok, and I keep playing with it. It just seems like it rises perfectly on the first rise, then not so good on the second.
I know whole wheat and oats is very heavy and hard to get a good rise, but it's a very fiberous and healthy mix, so...
Any ideas would be aprreciated. Thanks so much for all your help, advice and kindness. And you can quit laughing at the bread machine now LOL ;)

Answer
OK...let's see what we have here:

OK...let's analyze this:
         Baker's Percentage
3 cups packed whole wheat flour = 360   grams       100%
1 cup rolled oats =          90   grams        25%
1 tbsp dry yeast =          8.5 grams         3%
2 tbsp sugar =          15   grams         5%
1 tsp salt =          5.7 grams         2%
1 tbsp oil mix well then add        4.5 grams         2%
2 cups water =          472   grams       132%

If you convert to Baker's Math...you don't go wrong and consistency is assured.

First off...that's a LOT of water. Even if I add in the oats to the flour...that's a lot of water.

The yeast looks OK, the salt is good as is the oil and the sugar. The sugar does NOT help the rise. In fact, the more sugar, the more yeast you need. The oil isn't even over the top.

This dough is really tacky and wet?????

So as I understand bread machines...and I really don't...everything gets done in the machine automatically????

Also, I would like you to switch from Active Dry yeast to INSTANT yeast. Try Fleischman's or SAF.

OK...if we have this correct, then I'm thinking you might try coming off the water a bit...say to 80% and see what happens.

Remember, the more water, the longer the mix to develop gluten!

Is this a formula that comes with the bread machine. I do know that using a bread machine is not like using a mixer, but I'm thinking that 132% of water is a bit much, and I am NOT laughing at the use of bread machines...hey...whatever works.

Go get that scale. I'm not talking big expensive scales here...just a small, diet type scale that does grams.