Expert: W - 12/7/2007

Question
QUESTION: hi Dr Ray

this is a long one, but i need to give you as much info as possible! :)

i have a very small cattery with only 8 persian cats. (3 males & 5 females). I've made sure to buy the very best breeding stock i could get my hands on! I've had a nice big, indoor, tiled, air-conditioned & furnished cattery built for them. they only eat R.C & Hills. all are vaccinated & healthy. PKD DNA tested negative, also FeLV & FIV tested negative. they are all very healthy!
my problem,(it started +/-February 2007 till today) I've had all my females mated & NO MATINGS TOOK! (I've tried 3 different proven males & my own young stud, I've witnessed the matings & all seemed well with it!) some of the queens have now been bred 6-8 times with no luck! (no Payo to date)

I've been to my Vet a couple of times, first he suggested it's been our bad weather, a week of extreme cold & then 2 weeks of warm weather, then 2 days of extreme cold again etc... since the bad weather has passed & it's been nice warm weather for some time now & still no babies.
next my Vet told me to put all my cats on Synulox for a week, i did that & did a mating straight after - it didn't take!
so a new plan was revised, when a queen comes on heat she's given 0.2ml GnRH(Receptal) at the time of mating - did it with one queen - it didn't take again!

yesterday i read an article about G-Strep & treating it with Clindamycin, only 2 "symptoms" of G-Strep is "present" with my cats, matings that fail & that the problem is with all my queens. no other "symptoms"!  could it be G-Strep?

I've also phoned my males breeder, she said she doubts that it's G-Strep, maybe it's Cystic ovaries. but I've tried GnRH with no luck. or should i suggest to my Vet we try hCG? but is it possible that all my queens could have cysts at ones?

I've bought all my queens from 1 breeder, at the beginning of February 2007, the breeder has a huge cattery with MANY cats & has loads of fertility / breeding problems at her place. (June - September this year she had a kitten mortality rate of nearly 80%)

also since about March I've started experiencing problems with my dogs (I've got 4 yorkies) i was used to having 4-5 puppies in a litter - with no problems ever! since I've had about 50% of the puppies "fade" at 9-16 days, 3 cleft palates, 2 hydrocephalous, 1 with open intestines & overall less puppies in a litter or no puppies. (the dogs interact with my cats) could it be contagious? or my dogs might be getting old now?

I've had my males at the Vet, all testicles present & more than enough spines to do the job! (my young stud is 13 months old now & from a very fertile line, his father also mated at 11 months old & has never missed one litter!)

I'm at my wits end, i desperately need help! & would appreciate any suggestions!!!


ANSWER: Hi Rene
Sorry I took my time getting back to you but here is my opinion
Three things come out of your email
1. Your breeder has problems with her litters, this raises doubts about her breeding techniques. You need to check the pedigrees of your cats to make sure their inbreeding is low. If you know their pedigree go to www.pawpeds.com and check their details on the site for Persians. If they are close then that can and I say can cause problems with mating, but it does not answer the dog problem.
2. Low fertility is not natural across a number of cats so it is not normal. It certainly could not be a common disease unless they are all litter mates.
3. Your dogs have problems with conception
This sounds like a Teratogen. I would suggest your vet does a complete CBC on all animals to check for toxins.
Is your water supply ok, test it for metals like mercury, or aluminum or even lead.
The fact that all your animals are suffering suggests a common point of origin hence my mention of the water
Also look at any common foodstuffs, do they all eat the same type of kibble for instance.
Finally look for any use of weed killers in and around the property that may have leeched into the water supply
I hope this helps
My final recommendation is to ask a very close friend or family member to take two of your queens for about four weeks and then when they next call take them to mating off site and see what happens.
This will isolate your property and your animals from the queens and the four weeks will allow any Teratogens to be flushed from their bodies
Please do get back to me and we can chat more

Ray

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: hi again Doc

thank you for your quick reply! & suggestions, hope you would be able to help "us" even more! :)

yes the breeder of my queens has got lots of problems, but having near 80 breeding cats, she still makes a profit out of the surviving kittens! What is quit odd is that a few other breeders also bought cats from her & are all seemingly struggling with the same "phenomenon".
i know all my cats pedigrees by heart & non of them are related except a mother & daughter. all of them are completely different lines.
i live in South Africa & there are a few breeders in the same radius with no problems, so i guess the water might be fine, but i'll have it tested just to make sure. We do not use any insecticides or weed killers on our property. (we live in the city)
my dogs only eat Hills science plan & my cats also mainly eat Hills, but the cats do get large food prizes at shows, so Royal Canine Sensible & Kitten is added to their diet many times. i phoned many breeder that feed Hills & every one is happy & with no such problems. some persian breeder do complain about Royal Canine Persian and Kitten & Queen food, a few are convinced that it causes them fertility problems, but with no evidence to prove the theories. but again my dogs don't ever eat Royal Canine & my cats don't eat the 'suspected' foods.

at the moment i have 2 dog litters on the ground, both litters are 10 days old now, one litter of 4 & one of 2, these litters were completely fine, but at the time of mating i injected the moms with Synulox for 3 days (double dose) & at 5 weeks into the pregnancies i did it again for 3 days & after whelping again for 3 days. one of the puppies in the small litter was extremely tiny & weak & i've been tubing him, but he is fat & nursing now. they all look quit healthy at the moment! (past: the litter of 4 puppies- the mom had 2 puppies in 'n previous litter, 1 "faded"; the next litter she had only 1 puppy he to "faded"; before she usually had 4 with NO problems. The litter of 2 puppies- the mom usually have 1 or 2, the previous litter she had 1 who had Hydrosuphelaus- at 5 &1/2 months the puppy was fully "recovered" from it (one big vet bill on the pup!)
This situation with the 2 litters being the first ones that seem fine for this year, made my Vet also wonder about G-Strep bacteria, but Amoxi wouldn't kill G-Strep, so maybe it’s E-Coli or i could only guess! Should I still have CBC’s done on all the dogs? how would the outcome look after all the dogs were also on the Synulox? (all the animals were on the 3 day Corse at the same time)

the article on G-Strep i found at    www.7thheavencats.com/articles/gstrep    it's endorsed by Dr. Sue Rogers-Withers.

my Vet did some vaginal swabs from the cats, to culture for G-Strep, but i think it'll come back as normal. all the info i could find suggested that you can only successfully culture for it if you have a placenta of liver.

i suppose that giving all my animals the Clindamycin for 3 weeks wouldn't hurt them, but if it's not G-Strep & maybe something else would it kill "that" to?
Would giving bottled water be better than tap water?

Is there any other suggestions Doc could make? (I’ll take the post & Doc’s replies along to my vet, as I’m the only cat breeder at his practice)

also how big would kitten foetuses be at +/- 22 days after conception? (every book or study suggests a different ‘size’). The last queen mated (she was given GnRH at mating time) was mated about 22 days ago, she “pinked” yesterday, but I don’t feel any babies! Could induced ovulation have caused her to “pink”? I I’m not feeling any babies could it be a pseudo pregnancy?
Where would cat fertility problems most likely lie? No ovulation or loss of implantation? How would we be able to ‘test’ for this?

Regards
r


Answer
Hi Rene
First do change to bottled water if you can.
I am still concerned about the breeder of your cats. As she is experiencing problems in her cattery it does suggest some sort of bacterial infection and I still think of a teratogen. Do a complete CBC on your cats and look around for a veterinary hospital to carry out research on your cats.
The symptoms are not unique to one disease or condition, it suggests multiple origin source.
Also check the batches of Clindamycin. It is not unknown for drugs to be 'doctored' and prove to be useless that is to say the drugs could be illegal manufacture not your vet to blame, but it is accepted that about 30% of the drugs on the market are fraudulent in manufacture.
I am not sure about RC foods but do both dogs and cats have some common access to food stuffs as well.
The vaginal swabs require about 10 days to produce a culture so do give it time
I can't think of anything else at the moment but will give this some weekend though and maybe post some more early next week

Ray