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Buddhists - a long Q about renunciation :-)

Expert: Anandapanyo Bhikkhu - 10/30/2009

Question
Hi Anandapanyo,

I'm 25, female, British and have been practising Buddhist meditation for about a year as well as studying the dharma and reading a lot about the topic. I have a question regarding renunciation in Buddhism.

I read a lot of Buddhist articles, discussions and things on the internet and in books. Many of them seem to say that renunciation (either physical or mental) of worldly possessions, hobbies and interests, singing and dancing, family ties, friendships, work etc is advisable in order to progress spiritually.

What is the real difference between the "worldly" life and the "spiritual" life? Most things I read seem to regard the so-called "worldly" life with contempt. What is this worldly life?

Is it chasing after money and fortune (which I do not do)?

Is it wanting a loving relationship (which I do, but how going to a monastery would help with that I do not know. Also - I do not particularly wish to renounce my desire for a loving relationship - to love and be loved seems pretty natural and human to me)?

Is it fulfilling a role in the family, thus providing love and support to those around (which I do, which I am happy to do, and which brings me and my family members around me love, security and enjoyment)?

Is it listening to music (which I do - I think Beethoven's 9th symphony is the greatest piece of music ever composed and I think, as many people before me have thought, that it has elements of the divine. The title is "Ode to Joy" and the words go like this: "All men become brothers." Is this an ill-inducing worldly pleasure? How about dancing and singing? I have sung in choirs before, and one of the most powerful and beautiful experiences of my life was singing in the chorus of Beethoven's 9th symphony. Over one hundred human beings, each in his / her own private world, coming together to create a harmony, singing about all men becoming brothers.... is this a worldly pleasure that it would be best to renounce?

Or perhaps it's work. I am a language teacher. Would it be conducive to my happiness to renounce this? Languages, changeable and unreliable as they are (yes, I know that important feelings and concepts cannot be defined in words), are also incredibly beautiful. Listen to Pablo Neruda's poetry (though it's nicer written in Spanish!): "I do not love you as the plant that never blooms, but carries in itself the light of hidden flowers" and tell me that's just another human foible, a worldly pleasure to be renounced!

Is it friendship with non-Buddhists? I've read many accounts of people renouncing their friends to pursue something "higher", more spiritual. I have a wide circle of friends, some of whom I feel a deep connection with. With the closest of my friends, I can talk about more or less anything. We can sit in silence and be completely at ease. We can often understand each other without having to say anything at all. We can laugh for no reason. These are probably just meaningless worldly delusions that should be given up for something better.

I do realise that I sound quite defensive in my question/s. This is because I feel very defensive at the moment. I feel like the Buddhist things I read are basically attacking me and my life as I know it.

I realise that most people will say that the choice between the spiritual and worldly life is just that, a choice, and that I needn't feel bad or attacked because there's no creator god or any person attacking me or whatever. However, I get the feeling that the message "you have a choice - either follow the spiritual path and become happier and enlightened, or continue down the worldly path and be miserable and suffer more. it's your choice, nobody's telling you what to do, but just remember that one direction will make you miserable and the other will make you happy. you won't be condemned to eternal suffering or anything like in other religions, just a few more lifetimes of misery. it's your choice!" - i feel like that isn't a choice at all. it sounds to me like a softer, more intelligent, more persuasive and rhetorical version of the christian "do this or go to hell" commandments. basically a very similar concept, just worded in a less threatening way.

Also, with regard to the things I mentioned above (family, music, friends etc) - I don't mean to say that these things will bring me permanent and lasting happiness. I know that listening to Beethoven's 9th symphony ten times in a row would lead me to get bored of it, and that's fine. I know that my parents will die one day. I can accept that. Friendships sometimes fall apart. Okay. I may not do this job for the rest of my life. That's fine - I'm aware that in a few years time I might want to do something else - that's perfectly fine.

I'd appreciate any advice you have on these matters. I'm feeling really quite low about it all at the moment.

Best wishes,

Katy Yelland

Answer
Dear Katy Yelland,

I appreciate your question and thank you for the opportunity to answer it. Your question is well-founded and deals with many things. I hope that I am able to address them all in my response.

Let me first start off with a metaphor. Imagine that you like to play a sport (take your pick - baseball, softball, basketball, cricket, soccer (football) or any other). What are the different levels that can be played?

a.Recreational –
At this level, you will play only when the desire arises AND the situation allows. You will only play when you are not working, not doing chores, and out and about with others. You will only play if you want to and feel like it. You will probably not play too long and play just enough to make you feel happy.

b.Exercise –
At this level, you will play just enough to complete a specific goal, that is, to exercise. Sometimes you will want to, sometimes you won't. However, even when you don’t feel like it, you will continue to do so, since you set a goal and that is to exercise. When you play, you will play not for the sport itself, but for the goal of the sport (exercise or fitness).

c.Team or Group play for fun –
At this level, you will find others who share your love for this sport. You will visit them often and make friends with these people. You will sacrifice some of your time to this sport and enjoy it as you do it. The many people you will play with have various skill levels, but you will all share a common above average love for this sport that others in the world might not share.

At this level, you will also compare your skill to others. When you see others who are not as good as you, you might help them get better. If you see others who are better than you, you might learn from them to make yourself better. All in all, you all help each other progress in your skill.

d.Competitive Play –
At this level, you will dedicate much of your time to training and preparing for your matches and competitions. It will permeate into much of your daily activities and thoughts. As you work, you will think of your sport. As you sleep, you will dream of your sport. Everything you do, will in some way shape or form affect your sport.

At this level, you will play often and with rigor. While not playing, you will refrain from things that would be harmful to your play. For example, if you are serious about playing your sport, you might stay away from such harmful things such as cigarettes, alcohol or drugs. You will be serious about your sport and dedicate much of your time to your sport

e.High Level Competitive Play (Olympics?) –
At this level, you will no longer work in anything other than your sport. Your sport has become the most important thing in your life. You sacrifice partying, love, family, friends and everything in order to become the ULTIMATE at your sport. You feel that achieving the ultimate goal is the only thing worth doing in your life. You live, sleep and breathe your sport. Everything you do is training for your sport. You will not be happy until you completely achieve your goal.

Now, Buddhism works in the same way as these sports. Renunciation is merely the level at which you practice Buddhism (sport).

a.Recreational practice
At this level, you might read some books about Buddhism, meditate sometimes and go to temples. However, you do not feel Buddhism is the most important thing in your life. You only think about Buddhism when you feel like it. However, you find other things in life more important.

At this level, you don’t know why you meditate, what karma means and how it affects your life. Life is suffering at times, but it is bearable. You don’t have to renounce anything nor sacrifice any significant amount of time in order to practice Buddhism.
As a result, you will feel good about practicing when you do, but not really see any major significant results in your life.

b.As spiritual exercise
At this level, you feel like you need spirituality in your life. Therefore you turn towards meditation. When you meditate, it makes you feel better about yourself. Therefore, whenever you feel bad about yourself, you will find some time to meditate.

At this level, you will also not know why you meditate or practice Buddhism. You will not understand karma and how it affects your life. You will not have to sacrifice much to practice either. However, you will have to occasionally sacrifice some time for your practice.
As a result, every time you practice, you will feel better. However, when you don’t do it, you won’t feel better.

c.Practicing with a group
At this level, you feel somewhat serious about your practice. While you still want to live in this world and have a family, fall in love, listen to Beethoven and sing in choirs. However, you begin to feel your suffering as problematic and worthy of attention. You learn to see how your suffering comes from your perceptions, but are not able to tackle all of them yet. You slowly progress and find that your life gets better.

At this level, you will know that meditation will lead to focus and contemplation will lead to finding the cause of your suffering. You will vaguely understand karma and see how it operates in your daily life. You will be willing to spend large amounts of time practicing, while not neglecting your duties.

As a result, each time you go to practice with a group, you will come home a better person. However, the longer the period of time between practice, the sooner you revert back to your old self.

d.Dedicated practice
At this level, you are very serious about your practice. You spend as much time as possible practicing. You still work and have activities and responsibilities, but all other time is for practice. Even while you are working, doing activities or taking care of responsibilities, you begin to notice that practice can be done in your daily life. When problems arise, you tackle them immediately and firmly. You progress firmly in your practice and truly become one with the world.

At this level, you will know that meditation itself will not solve your problems. You will know that you need to focus and contemplate in order to find the cause of your suffering. Once you find the cause of your suffering, you will develop techniques on how to destroy those causes.

As a result, you are happy to have certain problems develop since that means you now have something to destroy. Each time you destroy a problem you are that much more a better person. People around you notice a definite change in you and ask you what you have done. There is no reverting back to your old self since you have destroyed the cause of your suffering.

e.Ordination
At this level, you realize the real purpose of life is to see life as suffering and escape the rounds of rebirth. You ordain and practice as much as you can in whatever time you have left.

“What is the real difference between the "worldly" life and the "spiritual" life? Most things I read seem to regard the so-called "worldly" life with contempt. What is this worldly life?”

The worldly life is what the life you are living, the life I am living and the life everyone is living. The spiritual life is the life of understanding you develop as you journey through the worldly life. In the worldly life, the things you do, the money you make, the things you obtain stay with the world when you die, however, in the spiritual life, the things you understand, the perceptions you develop, these things go with you after you die.

As for all the examples and questions you asked, (money, Beethoven, choirs, love…) some of these are worldly some of these are spiritual. It is often very hard to separate each one into different groups. However, one thing I want to point out is that just because the world does it, the world encourages it, or it feels right, doesn’t always make it right. Some quick examples are:
1.   The world used to think the world was flat
2.   The world used to think that having slaves was ok (some people still do)
3.   The world thinks killing is sometimes justified
4.   The world often thinks women are not as valuable as men
5.   Some people in the world like to do drugs, drink alcohol and fight because it feels
       good to them

So, as you see, not all things the world encourages, teaches, sets as laws or even do can be considered right.

There are many clarifications I can make on each of the points you asked, but that might end up being a 20 page response. I would like to offer the above as a preliminary over simplification.

If you would like more clarification on how to practice or for me to address any particular topic in detail, please feel free to ask a follow up question.

I hope I have answered your main question.

Sincerely,

Phra Anandapanyo

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