Expert: Joe McSorley - 1/21/2010

Question
This is a subject I am deeply interested in. You replied to another questioner, Joe:
" There is a strange conflict in Taoism about developing qigong and the diamond body and it’s this: if you become one with the Tao then you’ve overcome life and death so why do you need to develop the diamond body?"

Now I would love to go much deeper into what you mean here. From what I understand there are two very divergent forms of Taoism, philosophical, and religious, where the former is more emphasizing natural changes rather than magick, and trying to transcend 'it' with a 'Diamond Body/Light Body'? Is this so?

So for example, 'going with changes' would be the deepening insight that there IS no conflict between the dark and light, life and death, desire and fear, etc, IF one understands this---whilst the desire for the transcendental 'Diamond Body' promising hyperspace immortality is missing the point?

IS that it? Please can you answer this question? ;)

Answer
Hi Juliano,
I don’t think there is an explicit definition of two schools of Taoism but I definitely think that in practice there are the two different schools; the philosophical and the folk religion.  When I first studied Taoism it was through the martial arts in Chinatown and it was definitely shrouded in alchemical practices and esoteric religious beliefs.  When I studied it academically, specifically through the Tao Te Ching and Inner Chapters, a much deeper version free of superstitions and gods existed.  The ‘mysticism’ of this Taoism directly corresponds with that of Buddhism and the Vedas of India at their deepest meaning.  Any ultimate truth should be trans-historical and trans-cultural, meaning that it should not be limited by historicity and culture.  The philosophical form of Taoism expressed similar views of reality as those other traditions do free from anthropromorphising.
   So to get more to the point, yes, the problem is the self- identity of the person that is trying to preserve a diamond body.  This ‘self’ appears as something that is separate and distinct from the universe in order to want to preserve its ‘self’.  If self is defined by other and therefore self and other are one, mutually defining and creating, then what is this self the diamond body is preserving?  And like you said, if life and death are non-dual then what is the problem of death that you need to preserve your self? What is this self that is born and will die?  When Chuang tzu proclaims, “Heaven, earth and I arise simultaneously” he is not proclaiming an individual self that arises but all selves simultaneously mutually creating and defining.  Being liberated from the individual self in this manner he is free from individual birth and death.  His original nature is not the ego self. This proclamation aligns with the idea of interdependent co-origination, Sunyatta and the idea of emptiness in Buddhism.  The illusion is this self that tries to create a diamond body, that thinks it has self-identity apart from the universe and thus tries to preserve it, presumptively out of fear of death.  The question might be asked where this diamond body then exist, is it in space and time?  How does it know itself?  So it is a very problematic idea in everyday Taoism.
 I hope this helped you.  Take care,
            Joe