Expert: Joe McSorley - 5/18/2010

Question
QUESTION: Hi joe. thank you for your reply. maybe i'm not right to say so.
But anyway, can you please explain what is tao and anything to do with mankind?

thank you for your kind attention

regards cheekoon

ANSWER: Dear Cheekoon,
Lao Tzu begins the founding book of Taoism, The Tao Te Ching, with these words, “The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name”, in other words you cannot capture the meaning of Tao in thoughts, word or form, it is beyond the ability of the human mind to encapsulate it.  To try to define Taoism or the Way immediately creates a problem.  It’s a problem because it is not a particular thing or way.  There are no tenets, dogma, belief or laws and no central authority.  Tao is often understood as the way nature works or the natural order of things but its meaning is really deeper than that.  I would say that the central theme of Taoism or the Tao is the ‘interpenetration’ of things.  Many might say harmony with nature but this would not be a deep enough understanding. Many talk about following the tao (way) which is the natural order of things but that is an anthropomorphic concept.  By this I mean that it is a construct of human thought trying to say what is natures’ way and what is not natures’ way.  How can humans speak for all of nature? Taoism has many articulations but if you look into the heart of Lao Tzu and Chuang tzu what you find is the emphasis on interpenetration.  What this means is that things are co-originating, intertwined and mutually defining.  This is the meaning of the yin yang/Tai Chi symbol which I am sure you have seen.  The black and white swirls in the circle with the dots of opposite colors in them.  What this icon symbolizes is that opposites actually define one another.  That the foundation for darkness is light and vice versa.  Thus in the dark field you have a white dot and in the white field you have a black dot.  Each is the foundation for the other and cannot be separated from the other.  All being is defined by non-being.  Life is life precisely because you can die and without death there is no life they are mutually defining and existing.  This is the heart of Taoism.
 So all nature is the expression of the Tao and Tao is the expression of all nature.  In the West we have a split that is God/Man/Nature, all separate but in the East it is Man=Nature=Man, not split so this is why nature is integral to Taoism.
   We are Tao, the expression of nature.  We can never be apart from it or separated from it because we are it.  In effect we are nature in search of itself.
  I hope this helps you, take care,
         Joe


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Joe, thank you for the reply and a very good definations of "Tao".Lao Tzu begins the founding book of Taoism, The Tao Te Ching, with these words, “The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name”.
Maybe I would like to share my point of understanding about that and please do give me your opinion by justifying with Tao commentories.

“The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao
The name that can be named is not the eternal name”.
Tao had to be realise through your own experience. Let me make a simile: to understand the taste of lemon you have to taste the lemon.No matter how I describe with words, you still will never know the taste of lemon.
To understand Tao is to understand your ownselves. How actually we come to the world? Why are we here? Who are we?

The name that can be named is not the eternal name”.This 'name' does not mean 'name' or 'label'.The meaning in chinese character is 'Ignorance'.
We are ignorant of the answers to the top questions I asked.

If your explaination to me :This is the meaning of the yin yang/Tai Chi symbol which I am sure you have seen.  The black and white swirls in the circle with the dots of opposite colors in them.  What this icon symbolizes is that opposites actually define one another.  That the foundation for darkness is light and vice versa.  Thus in the dark field you have a white dot and in the white field you have a black dot.  Each is the foundation for the other and cannot be separated from the other.

This means the 'Ignorance' that we don't understand 'Tao'.
To 'Enlighten' is the way to understand 'Tao'.

So my advice is to understand the questions I asked.I wish ourselves could find the answers for that.

'Tao' = Way of liberation of this unsatisfactory( when come to an end of life).

'Name' = Enlightenment of the Method or understanding to practice in our daily life.

Hope this will help us to understand more about The Way.

cheekoon

Answer
Dear Cheekoon,
  
  It’s clear that you have thought about this in depth and I would like to perhaps add a little more insight into this. When Lao Tzu says, “While naming is the origin of the myriad things….” It means that when the self or “I” arises, also called self-consciousness, that it sees the world as apart from itself.  Here the naming of things arises in human conscious, the labeling, but most fundamentally the illusion of the separation between self and other.  While all things are ultimately interpenetrating and mutually defining, so they are ‘one’, we see them as the myriad things and we name this.  This is the source of our ignorance this act of separation that our mind does.  When Chuang Tzu says ‘when this arises, that arises’ he is pointing this out.  When the ‘I’ arises then the other arises and we see the myriad things.  You are right that it has to be experienced but that, too, can be seen in a deeper sense.  When you experience something there is a split between you and that which is experienced.  There is a ‘you’ that stands apart to have the experience so there is still a separation between self and other.  In this sense you can’t ‘know tao’ because there is the separation between the knower and what is known.  This is not deep enough for true enlightenment.  In true awakening the self/I/ego is shattered and you realize the world as itself and as you.  You realize that the individual you thought was real is an illusion, your mind is dissolved into the world but you are still an individual expression of nature while being all nature at the same time.  You don’t know Tao, you are Tao as it is, unknown but known.  A simile for this is the world is illuminated by light but light does not come and go by the world.  A drop of water can reflect the light and give it form but the light that is reflected is not bound by that form, it is just reflected by it.  So we, too, are Tao or nature reflecting itself but not bound by form.  We have no nature that is apart from all nature.  We are empty of a particular nature while being full of all nature.  It is by overcoming the identification of self with our mind and body, a death of the self, that enables true awakening to become possible.
 Take care,
         Joe